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Old 28th November 2008, 09:28 AM   #1
elac310 is offline elac310  France
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Default Beyma TPL150 now with horn

To the Beyma TPL150 lovers:
This pleated diaphragm tweeter which was originally sold "naked" comes now standard with a horn and bears the reference TPL150 H (http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/TPL150H.pdf ).
Since I bought these speakers earlier this year, the distributor in my country was kind enough to order the horns separately from the factory so that I can upgrade/make some comparisons.
The horn gives on paper quite a few more dB (compare with the datasheet for the "naked" version http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/TPL150.pdf ) and obviously modifies the dispersion patterns. The frequency response appears to be more linear and I presume those who need this can now try to X-over it at 1KHz.
I'll post my listening impressions.
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Old 28th November 2008, 01:22 PM   #2
tiki is offline tiki  Germany
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Hello,
look here, Dieter Achenbach presented this combination already. The sound? As usual with good CD-Horns. No perceptible colouration or distortion, except the bass-mid-speakers seemed to reach their limits sometimes (compression?). It was loud.
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Old 28th November 2008, 04:38 PM   #3
elac310 is offline elac310  France
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Thanks for this interesting link.
What I meant is that I'm already using the TPL150 *without* horn and I want to compare the sound *with* a horn (of course with level adaptation, in order to make a fair assesment).
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Old 3rd March 2009, 02:05 PM   #4
ejaouen is offline ejaouen  France
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Any opinions from people who have heard or own the TPL150 or TPL150H ?
I am interested in the TPL150H but would like to know if it is really worth the price gap against a 1" compression (cp380M or else in the same price range) driver on a TD250 horn.
Could you describe the TPL150H sound ?
I imagine this kind of AMT driver is much more high fidelity than a compression driver but never hear an AMT so I don't know in fact !
Is it more rugged and robust than a compression driver when talking of amplifier start stop transients (boom) and also possibility to be crossed over low (800 or 1000 hz) ?
thanks a lot
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Old 3rd March 2009, 03:38 PM   #5
tiki is offline tiki  Germany
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look here
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Old 3rd March 2009, 04:17 PM   #6
ejaouen is offline ejaouen  France
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Thanks Tiki but I already looked at this link and not much is said on the speaker including this beyma TPL150H.
Now if you really think this link answers my questions please quote or resume how...
Thanks everybody
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Old 3rd March 2009, 10:41 PM   #7
tiki is offline tiki  Germany
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Hello,
did you read my short description? What else is neccessary? I do not have individual measurements.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 11:53 PM   #8
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I want it too fore the benefits of low xo point and 95-100db sesitivity
I expect it to be very clean, smooth, superiour micro dynamics, "easy on the ears", and easier to handle than a CD

I have asked fore price but no reply, so probably not available yet, I guess

But if my primary goal was exstremely loud I would probably choose a CD/waveguide instead
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Old 5th March 2009, 09:58 PM   #9
elac310 is offline elac310  France
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My conclusion, in the context of my own set up (102-105 dB on the other speaker components, listening position at 5 meters, 40 square meter room, well furnished etc.):
The horn does slightly modify the sound in that it becomes more ample, and the sensation of live music is increased (in any event, it's been a long time that I get better results at home than in most live music performances I've attended in recent years...).

If you have looked at the comparative, superimposed curves at http://profesional.beyma.com/newslet...08/ingles.html (bottom of the page), you will have noticed that the horn mostly increases the sensitivity below 7 kHz; I use this tweeter as from 3kHz or so, and at 7 kHz, the horn would make no difference anymore (Beyma's measures are usually trustworthy). But somehow the top end too, is a bit more present (perhaps a side effect of increased beaming - I'm not enough of a physician or horn specialist). After a few weeks, I have now added a 1,5 resistor and decreased the value of the capacitor to 6,8uF (6dB filter). This helped remove the little harshness on certain extreme recordings as it took away a couple of dB around 3 or 4 kHz. This was necessary to compensate the increase of sensitivity around the crossing point with the mid-band.

Just for you to have an idea of the sound pressure at 5 meters: the mid frequencies are reproduced by two Audax HM210Z10 connected in parallel with no attenuation and the bass by two paralleled 15'' Ciare PW388 which have 75g moving mass.

The fact is that with the horn, the lateral stereo image has become a bit funny and blured, but the sensation of depth is pleasantly increased and noticeable on a number of good soundtakes, especially live recordings: mounting the horn helps align the emissive parts of the Beyma and Audaxes on the vertical plane, which is probably the reason for the nicer sensation of depth.

There is definitly an increase in energy (between 3 and 7 kHz) which makes certain instruments sound very spectacular, especially trumpet and saxophone (sometimes too much on certain records where these instruments are already exacerbated). Well recorded cymbals gain in presence. Even a grand piano gains positively in presence.

With the exception of exacerbated soundtakes, the sound remains very pleasant and precise at loud levels and the horn does not alter at all the pronounciation of letters like "s", "p", "f" in a singer's mouth (but this is already a strength of the TPL "naked".

Something I don't like so much is the vertical directivity which seems to be very much increased; out of the vertical sweet spot, the roll off at high requencies is tremendous. I expected this to happen based on Beyma's product datasheet, but not to that extent in practice. The horizontal directivity is also increased, but I need to experiment further with this. I conclude that the TPL150 with horn needs to aim exactly at the listening position.

These are my personal impressions in my own technical and acoustical environment. Those who are used to non linear high sensitivity compression tweeters will probably find the TPL150 (with or without H) too civilised. Resolution and dynamics are there, smoothness is preserved thanks to the linearity also with Horn. A great tweeter that plays in the same league as the Stage Accompany SA8535.

Chris.
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Old 6th March 2009, 12:54 AM   #10
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by elac310

But somehow the top end too, is a bit more present (perhaps a side effect of increased beaming - I'm not enough of a physician or horn specialist).
Chris.

Nice read Chris

regarding the added top presense

Im a bit concerned about possible diffraction issues from the front grille, which would be the same with some Hivi planars also, and all other AMTs fore that matter, as the front grille is part of the magnet system

In raw AMT the diffractions may not be very audible
though a bit surpricing as I can hear the common screw holes around a tweeter front plate
But as we cant remove the frontgrill of a AMT, its impossible to auditon any difference

could it be that the directiveness of the waveguide/horn "amplifies" the diffractions just enough to make the topend sound more "forward"

Another point is whether it would be benefitial with a small zobel
even an almost impedance linear tweeter like the XT25 also benefits from such zobel
It does pr experts "cure" some of the magnetgap/voicecoil flux modulations...if I rmember correctly
So its obvious that it may be kind of tricky to find the exact right values
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