PIEZO NXT type panel - Page 9

bpilgrim99 · 22nd January 2009, 06:26 PM

I seem to have lost the rest of my reply.

I'll send further updates later.

Ziggy · 23rd January 2009, 12:36 AM

Hi bpilgrim99, You're welcome. Here's another update and aditional information:

The Gatorfoam was purchased in BLACK. It's available in black, white and ''natural'' facers. I guess ''natural'' would look like MDF ?

Yes , they ARE big panels

. The photo was taken as a comparison to the two way horn system with Altec style (can't remember the model number) horn bass bin and round AZZURA horn flairs (24 inch diameter), coupled to MASSIVE(8 inch diameter) SELENIUM 4 inch titanium compression drivers. It's a two way system with a simple 6db per octave crossover with quality components, crossed over at 800hz.

Regretfully, and this is difficult for me to admit, the panels with only one exciter running on each side has more realism, coherence and superb imaging. I am truly SHOCKED that this is the case because the Azzura horns are very open and non-horn like sounding.They are of course more efficient, but here's the weird thing - The NXT panels of this size have ended up being surprisingly loud in comparison to their rated sensitivity compared to the 100db sensitivity of the horns. In other words the db reading on my amplifier does nor correlate with the perceived loudness of the panels. This confirms NXT''s information on their publications and white papers on the technology.

The horns now don't seem to sound right - I notice that the 15 inch woofer cabinet is droning along and interfering with the music instead of filling in the bottom end gap as they're supposed to.

The ''Monolith's'' - at first impressions ? : realistic highs, incredible detail in the mids, amazingly fast transients, and the bass notes? : only come in when there is bass , and brother, when they do, it's like they're coming from deep down like a hole right through to China !!!. They have superb coherence and piano music/classical/jazz and guitar music is stunning.
Negatives?.....yes,........I should have made these a long time ago!!!. Seriously though, the Gatorfoam must be held at the corners and sides as I notice a slight ''board'' like coloration occasionally. This stops when you grab hold of the panel by the edges firmly. This is where the ''tuning'' will start once the panels are mounted and suspended in their wooden frames.

Another problem - how to wire the 6 exciters to obtain MAXIMUM efficiency? Have looked at various internet articles and have realised that series connection and paralell connection have different gains in db and a combination of both is different again.

Can anyone help on this one as I am not sure of the correct wiring configuration

bpilgrim99, NXT have informed me of two important factors regarding panel material choice:

1. Lighter the panel : THE LOUDER THE SOUND

2. Stiffer the panel : MORE HIGH FREQUENCIES GET THROUGH

You will probably find that your plywood panel is way too heavy for any reasonable loudness. But, it's great to hear that that you agree with your observation on crisp highs and bass extension

Keep us informed of your experimentation.

ABJensen · 23rd January 2009, 05:52 AM

http://www.kyocera-chemi.jp/english/...oneycomb_e.pdf

Ziggy · 23rd January 2009, 10:18 AM

Great find ABJensen!

That just about sums it all up in what's required in a panel material

Pity the ''store'' is in Japanese.

Ziggy · 26th January 2009, 03:51 AM

Some pictures :

SOUNDPAD

Ziggy · 26th January 2009, 03:54 AM

Soundpad with arms and cardboard disk removed and cut away, ready to remove from casing.

Ziggy · 26th January 2009, 09:54 AM

Patience...........patience my little children......

human.bin · 27th January 2009, 12:17 AM

ziggy, would you show some pic on how to take the soundpads off the housing and how to attach them than?

i have a paira at home, going to try them on some long slice of light balsa wood

Ziggy · 27th January 2009, 02:04 AM

Hi human.bin.

I have no sound pads remaining so I can not take any further photos(sorry). All exciters have been removed including the two that are on the large panels at the moment.

Here is a simple step by step process to follow:

1. cut the three plastic ''arms'' near the main body of unit. Then lift them and remove from cardboard disk.

2. Cut or tear the cardboard disk from outside going inwards to the ''foot''. Do this in 2-3 places and tear away as much of the cardboard from the foot as possible (be gentle and careful!).

3. you will now have to peel off, bit by bit, the remaining cardboard and sticky, clear ring from the foot of the exciter(slowly with your fingernail - be careful once again)

4. cut casing near terminals (vertical cut) bot sides and bend outwards slightly - see second photo - '' ready to remove from casing''

5. cut wires leading to positive and negative terminals. The exciter is now ready to be removed.

6. use a small flat head screwdriver and place between casing and exciter magnet . Lever up the screwdriver so that exciter begins to separate from casing. The exciter is held to the casing with three small double sided foam ''dots'' underneath.

7. Once the exciter has lifted up enough, you can grab the edge and tear the rest of the dots away from the casing. Then, peel the three dots away from the casing and the exciter is ready.

Don't forget that the small PTC resistor is connected to the positive end of the exciter and must remain if you are only going to use one driver per panel.

Hope this helps.

Ziggy · 27th January 2009, 02:15 AM

How to attach them : use CLEAR TYPE DOUBLE SIDED TAPE - RUBBER BASED. Some tapes are plastic based and do not work as well. Look for 3M/SCOTCH brand products.

DO NOT USE ''FOAM DOUBLE SIDED TAPE''.

For a permanent stick on, use SUPER GLUE.

Balsa wood will be interesting. You could glue pieces side by side to get width, then glue another layer underneath (going horizontal) for added strength.

I think you would need a press of some sort to make sure everything ends up being flat?

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22nd January 2009, 06:26 PM	#81
bpilgrim99 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2008	I seem to have lost the rest of my reply. I'll send further updates later.

23rd January 2009, 12:36 AM	#82
Ziggy Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: West Australia	Hi bpilgrim99, You're welcome. Here's another update and aditional information: The Gatorfoam was purchased in BLACK. It's available in black, white and ''natural'' facers. I guess ''natural'' would look like MDF ? Yes , they ARE big panels . The photo was taken as a comparison to the two way horn system with Altec style (can't remember the model number) horn bass bin and round AZZURA horn flairs (24 inch diameter), coupled to MASSIVE(8 inch diameter) SELENIUM 4 inch titanium compression drivers. It's a two way system with a simple 6db per octave crossover with quality components, crossed over at 800hz. Regretfully, and this is difficult for me to admit, the panels with only one exciter running on each side has more realism, coherence and superb imaging. I am truly SHOCKED that this is the case because the Azzura horns are very open and non-horn like sounding.They are of course more efficient, but here's the weird thing - The NXT panels of this size have ended up being surprisingly loud in comparison to their rated sensitivity compared to the 100db sensitivity of the horns. In other words the db reading on my amplifier does nor correlate with the perceived loudness of the panels. This confirms NXT''s information on their publications and white papers on the technology. The horns now don't seem to sound right - I notice that the 15 inch woofer cabinet is droning along and interfering with the music instead of filling in the bottom end gap as they're supposed to. The ''Monolith's'' - at first impressions ? : realistic highs, incredible detail in the mids, amazingly fast transients, and the bass notes? : only come in when there is bass , and brother, when they do, it's like they're coming from deep down like a hole right through to China !!!. They have superb coherence and piano music/classical/jazz and guitar music is stunning. Negatives?.....yes,........I should have made these a long time ago!!!. Seriously though, the Gatorfoam must be held at the corners and sides as I notice a slight ''board'' like coloration occasionally. This stops when you grab hold of the panel by the edges firmly. This is where the ''tuning'' will start once the panels are mounted and suspended in their wooden frames. Another problem - how to wire the 6 exciters to obtain MAXIMUM efficiency? Have looked at various internet articles and have realised that series connection and paralell connection have different gains in db and a combination of both is different again. Can anyone help on this one as I am not sure of the correct wiring configuration bpilgrim99, NXT have informed me of two important factors regarding panel material choice: 1. Lighter the panel : THE LOUDER THE SOUND 2. Stiffer the panel : MORE HIGH FREQUENCIES GET THROUGH You will probably find that your plywood panel is way too heavy for any reasonable loudness. But, it's great to hear that that you agree with your observation on crisp highs and bass extension Keep us informed of your experimentation.

23rd January 2009, 05:52 AM	#83
ABJensen diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: copenhagen	http://www.kyocera-chemi.jp/english/...oneycomb_e.pdf

23rd January 2009, 10:18 AM	#84
Ziggy Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: West Australia	Great find ABJensen! That just about sums it all up in what's required in a panel material Pity the ''store'' is in Japanese.

27th January 2009, 12:17 AM	#88
human.bin diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2008	ziggy, would you show some pic on how to take the soundpads off the housing and how to attach them than? i have a paira at home, going to try them on some long slice of light balsa wood

27th January 2009, 02:04 AM	#89
Ziggy Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: West Australia	Hi human.bin. I have no sound pads remaining so I can not take any further photos(sorry). All exciters have been removed including the two that are on the large panels at the moment. Here is a simple step by step process to follow: 1. cut the three plastic ''arms'' near the main body of unit. Then lift them and remove from cardboard disk. 2. Cut or tear the cardboard disk from outside going inwards to the ''foot''. Do this in 2-3 places and tear away as much of the cardboard from the foot as possible (be gentle and careful!). 3. you will now have to peel off, bit by bit, the remaining cardboard and sticky, clear ring from the foot of the exciter(slowly with your fingernail - be careful once again) 4. cut casing near terminals (vertical cut) bot sides and bend outwards slightly - see second photo - '' ready to remove from casing'' 5. cut wires leading to positive and negative terminals. The exciter is now ready to be removed. 6. use a small flat head screwdriver and place between casing and exciter magnet . Lever up the screwdriver so that exciter begins to separate from casing. The exciter is held to the casing with three small double sided foam ''dots'' underneath. 7. Once the exciter has lifted up enough, you can grab the edge and tear the rest of the dots away from the casing. Then, peel the three dots away from the casing and the exciter is ready. Don't forget that the small PTC resistor is connected to the positive end of the exciter and must remain if you are only going to use one driver per panel. Hope this helps.

27th January 2009, 02:15 AM	#90
Ziggy Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: West Australia	How to attach them : use CLEAR TYPE DOUBLE SIDED TAPE - RUBBER BASED. Some tapes are plastic based and do not work as well. Look for 3M/SCOTCH brand products. DO NOT USE ''FOAM DOUBLE SIDED TAPE''. For a permanent stick on, use SUPER GLUE. Balsa wood will be interesting. You could glue pieces side by side to get width, then glue another layer underneath (going horizontal) for added strength. I think you would need a press of some sort to make sure everything ends up being flat?