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Old 27th January 2009, 02:27 AM   #91
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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............. Just noticed that the KYOCERA LINK posted by ABJensen, has a SOUNDPAD stuck on to the back of the''Narupane'' speaker panel ......you have to look closely, but it's there - I recognized the ''arms''
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Old 27th January 2009, 04:03 AM   #92
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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Something to think about..........

Sticking a number of the exciters to the Gatorfoam will help in power handling and efficiency. However, the exciters will also add mass to the panel which could negate the benefits.

So, serious consideration needs to be given to attach the back of the drivers to a wooden beam or brace at the rear to ''hold'' the exciters which then have only their feet in contact with the panel. No extra weight will be added in this method.

However, this process needs to be done some time after the panel has been mounted to it's frame to allow for any sag or downwards drift of the silicone rubber suspension on the corners and sides. Otherwise there may be a destructive force applied to the exciters that may end up in misaligning the voice coils and causing buzzes and rattles.

Some food for thought?
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Old 27th January 2009, 08:26 AM   #93
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

For a permanent stick on, use SUPER GLUE.

Normal cyanacrylate glue is not vibration-resistant. Moray James (developer of the Sumo Aria bending wave transducer) recommended a cyanacrylate glue with synthetic rubber as filler in an other thread.
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Old 27th January 2009, 06:10 PM   #94
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which is the function of the resistor on the positive wire??

regarding the 'opere sonore' aforementioned, they are made out of resonance wood from northen italy, from the same woods Stradivari picked up for his instruments...
they say the holes are there for tuning harmonic behaviour... indeed it's an elite product not audiophile oriented, mono with amp included, and will probably sound disappontly to anyone here... i've never heard them nor seen one around here in Rome.

i was thinking where liutery wood, like guitar, violin wood would work fine... i'll probably give this a try.


when i buyed my first t-amp, two soundpads came with. i sticked them into a pair of shoe boxes, make a cut with some kind of BR port, it was funny computer speakers... some bass tunes came out nerfield wall loaded, but nothing you would call music fidelity: i even attached them inside a big cardboard box like 1m*1m (the ones old television came with) and it filled the room with disturbing amount of bass... when sticked on the back of a classic guitar, funny, incredibly fat, due to the strings ringing harmonicaly came out. then i trashed them...

never tought i would find them here on the forum! this gets me really excited


when thinking of a box... do you think that the rear ala dipole radiation of back sound is the big part in the realism of the presentation?
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Old 28th January 2009, 02:05 AM   #95
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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el'OL...... interesting.....I'll keep that in mind.
Have got some 3M 300LSE (same stuff that's on the disk of the Soundpads) coming in the mail. I'll see what happens with that. They're free samples...... so what the heck?.

human.bin, the resistor is a PTC (Positive temperature coefficient).It's to stop the exciter from damage due to too much amplifier current/power (the exciter is rated for only 5-10 watts).

Sticking the soundpads in or on to boxes is A BAD CHOICE. Remember, these things are designed to make flat surfaces vibrate as a DML - DISTRIBUTED MODE LOUDSPEAKER.

Your choice of panel material is CRITICAL to the sound. Wood is generally NO GOOD as it is too heavy.

Also, the exciter MUST BE REMOVED FROM IT'S CASING : this makes a huge improvement!(but,......makes mounting the exciter more difficult)

The rear/dipole radiation is exactly what helps make this type of sound so special. Plus the DML method of operation is so unique in it's sound........I have never heard anything like it........very real and open, like a GIANT full range single driver.
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Old 29th January 2009, 02:14 AM   #96
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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The 3m adhesive tape has arrived on my doorstep the same day I spoke to the representative. Talk about GREAT SERVICE !!

Guess that I'll now need to find the time to mount all the drivers on the Gatorfoam and see what happens.

I will be noting changes in tonality, frequency response, sensitivity and will report accordingly.
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Old 29th January 2009, 04:21 PM   #97
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an observation, isn't the lower range of frequencies reproduced only when long waves are free to travel at least a periodic portion of themselves on the board? the positioning is directly balancing the speaker frequency response, wouldn't it be less umbalanced if one puts them in two rows one in the most upper part one in the lower??

really don't understand why they are working better in a column, also i saw with my only crappy one (the other went completly destroiyed when i trashed those boxes) that it is giving concentrated HF energy in its position, ain't that oddity with your materail or are you planning do damp someway right in face of the transducers?

from the review of 6moons, biggest problem seems to be bodiness of sound, should't it be helped by woofer for the punchy job anyway? will you be reporting on LF extension and spl? is that a little sub in the middle in you photos?
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Old 30th January 2009, 12:49 AM   #98
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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I have tried various positions with as many as six soundpads on a large 5mm thick cardboard sheet as you will have read in my previous posts.

I can still say to this day..............there was little if any difference to the frequency response. This was by ear only, not by measurement because I do not have the equipment.

A single vertical row of drivers that are offset (don't ask why as I am only following others using these exciters and panels commercially) from the middle point sound great. The more drivers, the louder the sound, and the greater the power handling(but, you must wire for correct impedance).

I am surprised that you found your experience showed ''concentrated high frequency energy''. I can only assume that this was because you were not using the Soundpad on a panel, only cardboard boxes


The panels I am using have excellent highs and mids - smooth and clear without a constant reminder of a boxed in woofer working in the background.

No that is not a subwoofer in my photo. That's a centre channel speaker for my home theatre set up. I don't even use a subwoofer - don't like them

You must remember that the 6 moons review is relating to a NXT type of speaker, but, it is not truly a full NXT implementation as the panel is not held at all the edges. The panel ''floats free'' with only 4 braces holding it to the panel.

As I have mentioned before, and I am realizing that the 6 moons reviews is correct in their findings that the panel's have a bass that at first seems low. However, when there is bass in a recording, you will know about it - believe me. No, it's not a subwoofer type bass (thank god ) but it can sound what seems like a very low response on occasions when it's on the recording.

The position of the panels, size of room etc., all make an important difference to the sound you will hear.

I have had people come in to my room while the panels were playing and say '' your horns sound very clean today........what have you done?'' when the horns were not even connected!). Others have listened to them and clearly stated that they prefer the sound of the horns. Hell, I still like the sound of the horns, but they don't reproduce the concert hall sound.

All I know is that the horns are far from the realism I hear when I go to the concert hall to hear a symphony played live. The NXT panels are FAR closer than the horns in that area.

People who have panel loudspeakers, whatever the type, will agree that bass from panels is completely different to ''BOX BASS''. Once you know what panel bass can do, you will never go back to box speakers!

When the panels are completed in their prototype form with all 6 excirers per side, I will try to get a SPL and even a frequency response curve. I know someone who can help in this field.

At this point in time I can sense that many of my fellow d.i.y.'ers who are following this thread think that I am either totally mad or exaggerating my claims as there is no way that this type of technology has any place on this forum.

I can only say that this project started early last year with lots of research, reading, then testing materials, trying the NXT exciters(with and without their enclosures in respect to the ''Soundpads'') in various positions and wiring configurations(noting that 5.4 ohms impedance instead of the amplifier's 6 ohms nominal, was enough for a high quality solid state amplifier to cause the PTC resistors on the exciters to cut in )and many man hours .

If I was not serious about the quality of sound so far, as an audiophile, this project would have been scrapped a long time ago. I have been more than happy to share my experiments with members and hopre that all the information has been of benefit to at least some.

NXT technology is NOT A TOY...........it is NOT just reserved for mini systems with add on subwoofers. It is not reserved for greeting cards, back pack music systems or''invisible'' computer monitor screens, computer speakers or even the SOUNDPAX fold up speaker pyramids or'' musical picture frames''.

I have found it to be an amazing alternative to the crud of the so called ''high end'' box speakers that pretend to be something they are not. Yes, they dominate the market because that's what everyone thinks is a ''loudspeaker''.
They make these things with new ''high tech'' cones that are advertised blatantly as ''revolutionary''........yeah?............when heard in action, some sound so bad that you wonder whether they should have retained paper cones and just painted them with a ''revolutionary'' coating that usually ends up being an expensive variant of nail polish.

I have been and still am slowly peeling away all the B.S that has been spread amongst the various audio forums and pathetic reviewers and am rapidly approaching what I believe will be the fist ''DIY LARGE PANEL NXT SPEAKER''.

Stop me if you can............................
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Old 30th January 2009, 01:05 AM   #99
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very happy about your determination!

can you explain the part about the transformers? i don't know a thing about it

how much did you spent for the panels? i was looking for something similar here in italy, don't know if i'll be finding it by the name so i don't want to be stealed on the prices.
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Old 30th January 2009, 01:11 AM   #100
Ziggy is offline Ziggy  Australia
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human.bin, thanks.

If you mean the PIEZO TRANSFORMERS?........they came with the Le Son tweeters(built in). They match the very high impedence of the piezo to the amplifier load. With the transformers, the output is VERY much increased.

Parts Express sell a KSN1188 clone that is cheap and has a built in transformer. It is 4 inches in diameter and is a screw on P.A driver for horn flares.
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