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Old 10th April 2008, 07:28 PM   #1
drewb is offline drewb  United States
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Default Nylon conductive coating

I read were Nylon could be dissolved in a strong sulfuric acid solution. From what I have read I believe that sulfuric acid is safer than the phenol solution that is commonly used (I am used to handling strong acids).

I got some cheap nylon fishing line and dissolved it in a strong Muriatic acid (brick cleaner, pure sulfuric acid). It did dissolve and formed a nylon "goo" similar to the phenol descriptions I have read.

Can I use this as a conductive coating? I assume the acid could be washed off with deionized water, leaving only a nylon film on the mylar.

My initial experiments have been good but I have not gotten far enough to measure the resistance. I am mostly concerned with the long term. That is, if the acid will attach the Mylar over time, etc.
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Old 10th April 2008, 08:18 PM   #2
SY is offline SY  United States
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Muriatic acid is not sulfuric! But it's just as corrosive and dangerous. If you wash the coating thoroughly with water, you can get most of it out. Whether or not the nylon will still stick is a separate issue.
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Old 10th April 2008, 11:25 PM   #3
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Why not use a coating that is actually designed to stick to polyester? ER audio sells a nice one, and there's a lot of products out there these days to make static dissipating packaging. No point in killing yourself to make a marginal conductive coating.


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Old 11th April 2008, 10:09 PM   #4
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M.J. Dijkstra and ER Audio both have diaphragm coatings that work and are transparent. You can also try dilute PVA adhesive (non toxic) or acrylic floor polish . I would not want to choose such toxic chemicals to work with (been there done that and paid the price) when non toxic options are available.
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Old 17th April 2008, 02:02 PM   #5
drewb is offline drewb  United States
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I stand corrected Muriatic acid is hydrochloric, not sulfuric. Nonetheless, it does dissolve Nylon.

I am used to using strong acids, so I don't have any problems with it. Other things I do, such as sticking down loose lettering on old glass FM tuner faceplate's with super glue vapor are far more concerning to me. (Don't even think about trying that one without proper training)

Ok, you got me. Acrylic floor polish? Any threads on that?
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Old 17th April 2008, 09:21 PM   #6
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Default you are entering Area 51........

there shouls be lots to sink your teeth into here. You can also search diyaudio forum but that is a slow go. I have said before that if I were to be inclined to do some R&D on this topic I would be looking at the new hi tech auto top coat compounds (high shine products). There are at least two fellows on this forum that manufacture liquids which are designed for (esl coating) this end purpose and they sell at a reasonable price. See if you can make a better wheel but I would like to see a safe one (non toxic) keeping in mind that most diy types will be building inside with only a window to open.

http://www.quadesl.org/Hard_Core/Pan...lcoatings.html
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Old 18th April 2008, 05:11 PM   #7
drewb is offline drewb  United States
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Thanks James.

Sounds like you are thinking seriously about this. Somehow I have trouble with $40.00 for a small bottle. Reminds me of the 60's somehow. At least from what I can remember (If you can remember the 60's, you weren't there).

I should elaborate since I am somewhat out the normal discussion with my application.

I am redoing my old Stax headphones. The original diaphragms had small holes in them (not good no matter what we are discussing).

The diaphragms are about 3 inches in diameter. I got some 2 micron mylar from our friends in the ultralight glider hobby. Using a wheelbarrow inner tube I have successfully made a stretcher.

What interests me the most with auto shine, etc. is the idea of applying it and then spinning it to centrifuge an even coating. This technique is used throughout industry and is capable of producing some incredibly thin and even coatings.

Of course I am not advocating this with the ESL panels that are the bane of this group.

I would welcome your thoughts on the various materials and how they might work in this application.
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Old 18th April 2008, 07:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by drewb
Thanks James.

Sounds like you are thinking seriously about this. Somehow I have trouble with $40.00 for a small bottle.

$40.00 is way too much for a small bottle containing diluted (wood-) glue.
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Old 18th April 2008, 10:27 PM   #9
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Default I'd be careful spinning a wheelbarrow...

I have no idea if the "high shine" compounds would even work but a bottle costs $10 - 12.00 just to find out then add on your own time to go buy it then test it. $40.00 bucks seems very resonable to me for a high tech product that works and adds minimum mass. I will buy what you do not use fo $20.00 that should bring the cost down into a reasonable range. I figure that you could use a small perfume atomizer bottle to mist on a very fine liquid layer and in your case use a makeup pad or swaub to remove the excess fluid. I don't know that spinning the layer down to a minimum will make a difference that you can hear but I am sure that it would be a good thing. I would apply the coating to both sides of the film. If you are concerned about the mass then just get some 0ne micron film. I am just guessing that the time that you will spend learning how to spin a three inch diaphragm while making sure it remains intact will be worth more than $40.00. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and pay the man the money. Time spent on line looking about can cost as much. And if you ever bought a box of Rice Crispies then you have no right to complain about a $40.00 dollar bottle of fluid. Lets all be very thankful that the Kellogg's marketing dept. is not working for Exon or none of us would ever drive a car.
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Old 19th April 2008, 12:56 AM   #10
Lucius is offline Lucius  United States
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$20 is way too much for a small bottle of floor polish.
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