ESL Diaphragm coating - Page 61 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st July 2012, 05:11 AM   #601
diyAudio Member
 
chinsettawong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
I think you are putting way too much coating. I use Staticide 6300, and I only use a few drops of it for the whole surface. I use sponge to apply the Staticide. When I do that I even moise the sponge before applying and it works great for me.

Wachara C.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 06:39 AM   #602
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Calvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: close to Basel
Hi,

have a look at #16 of Mylar roller buy, what is a real uses ???
The mass-related difference between 12m and 3.5m at 20kHz was just 5dB (not taken into account the larger capacitance hence lower bandwidth limit of the larger panel and not taking into account the weight increase by the membrane coatings). The difference between 12m and 6m or 6m to 4m will be less. Below 6m no significant mass related effects will occur within the audio bandwith limits. I wouldt go thinner than 5-6m for a FR panel and no thinner than 3m for a hybrid panel.
The thinner the membrane material the higher the percentage weight of coating. The thinner the membrane material the thinner and lighter the coating should be. At 3.5m the behaviour of the coated diaphragm is to a considerable percentage determined by the coatings characteristics. A coating obviously should be thinner than 1m with such a thin material.
Spraying on a coating will result in larger dry thickness. Wiping produces lower thickness.

jauu
Calvin
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 07:05 AM   #603
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Legis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
I have to do some measurements today after i have gotten the panel up and ready. 5dB difference between 12m and 3,5m is quite small, smaller than I expected. Maybe the bigger difference I saw was due to the aluminum coating.

I'm a bit afraid how high Q value of the panel resonance is going to be with 3,5m membrane. When I excite the panel with hand claps or of "beatbox bass", the thinner membrane resonates somewhat lower than the 6m panel, but also longer, which - I presume - indicates higher Q. However the thinner membrane is not currently between the stators like the 6m, this might affect it's damping because the air mass/flow resistance surrounding it is smaller and the membrane can resonate more freely. I would still presume the Q will be higher because the tension is not as high.

Last edited by Legis; 21st July 2012 at 07:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 10:40 AM   #604
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Calvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: close to Basel
Hi,

why is it less than expected? The mass related effect drops the amplitude response by -6dB/oct. With all films of 12m and less the -3db popint is well above 10kHz. So Id expect no more 6dB difference in any case. The amplitude drop because of the voltage divider action of the Audio-trannies copper resistance and transformed lowimpedance value in the highest octave will be of greater impact. Maybe You also changed something else like Bias voltage. More charge on the diaphragm will result in more force per area on the diaphragm, hence a shift of mass-related amplitude drop towards higher freqs.
Regarding Q: Yes, a lower Fs coincides with a larger Q. The only measurements against it are mechanical damping with flow resistances and electrical notch filtering.

jauu
Calvin
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 11:20 AM   #605
diyAudio Member
 
CharlieM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Savannah, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post
I think you are putting way too much coating. I use Staticide 6300, and I only use a few drops of it for the whole surface. I use sponge to apply the Staticide. When I do that I even moise the sponge before applying and it works great for me.

Wachara C.
Without knowing the volatiles content of both materials, I would not assume that equal quantities of Licron Crystal and Staticide 6300 would give equivalent wipe-on thickness or resistance. Licron Crystal is formulated for spray application with just over 98% volatile solvents. Does anyone know the percentage of volatiles in Staticide 6300?

BTW, Licron Crystal + shipping costs about $50 dollars for an 8-oz aerosol can and that's only enough to spray about 3 sets of panels. If it takes only a few drops of Staticide to coat a panel, then the cost per panel would be much, much less with the Staticide.

Last edited by CharlieM; 21st July 2012 at 11:39 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 12:47 PM   #606
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Legis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Here's a near field (mic 30-40cm away) response with 0.6R series resistor and 280Hz 1st order passive line level crossover (12nF series cap). I think I used 0.3R in previous measurements because it gives more HF.

Click the image to open in full size.

I think the 3,5 gives more HF response, but I have to measure some more, luckily I have the other panel with 6m so I can make a direct comparison.

Bass goes deeper due to lower resonances just as I thought, and is actually less peaky than before. It also sounds better, better controlled I would say. When listened up close it sounds nicer because the resonances are lower.

The coating is clearer with one layer, and I did not lose any efficiency by doing that.

One can hear everything that is on the record. There is a difference in favor of 3,5m, it adds more resolution and ever so slightly more a feeling of speed and pin point sharpness to MF and HF transients. ZAP!

The only concern I have is that this panel leaks a bit more than the other, the blink rate is approx. double. I was quite through in cleaning. It could be the tape, I used black duct tape sealing the sides, I don't know it's surface's and glue's features. Maybe electrical PVC tape would have been better. I will monitor the blink rate, sometimes it settles in couple of days.

Last edited by Legis; 21st July 2012 at 12:50 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 04:15 PM   #607
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Calvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: close to Basel
Hi,

You never know what creates the black. Preferrably I use clear tape. Besides clear tape probabely is also the cheapest You can get ;-)

jauu
Calvin
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2012, 05:29 PM   #608
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
Looks great !!!

It really inspires me to get off of my bum and get to building again!!!

jer
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2012, 03:34 AM   #609
diyAudio Member
 
alexberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieM View Post
Without knowing the volatiles content of both materials, I would not assume that equal quantities of Licron Crystal and Staticide 6300 would give equivalent wipe-on thickness or resistance. Licron Crystal is formulated for spray application with just over 98% volatile solvents. Does anyone know the percentage of volatiles in Staticide 6300?

BTW, Licron Crystal + shipping costs about $50 dollars for an 8-oz aerosol can and that's only enough to spray about 3 sets of panels. If it takes only a few drops of Staticide to coat a panel, then the cost per panel would be much, much less with the Staticide.
You are missing the point,
6300 is water based, easier to dilute and to smear which makes it superior to Licron, based on spirits/solvents which are to dry in a matter of seconds.
Nothing comes free - yes it has limited life, once opened, if purchased in bulk, say bottles.
Aerosol flavor of 6300 is called 6500 - so there is no real "opening", bingo!
Price wise they are about the same: $32 up for canned option. Can be air shipped!
I've measured 6300 resistivity and doubt 3 drops figure for a full size panel... what size are the drops in question?
Really thin coating is more fragile... so unless you are trying to confuse bats with your speaker it's better to stay with reasonably thick coating.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2012, 10:24 AM   #610
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Legis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Licron Crystal doesn't appear to be completely humidity and temperature independant. I lost ~3dB of sensitivy when the temp of the room dropped from 28deg to 22deg, and humidity dropped from 60% to 45% (I left the window open for the night. Also the neon lamp blinks now much slower.

This makes the subwoofer volume setting little tricky, I will have to make some presettings that will be loaded depending on the temperature and humidity conditions. Or buy an air conditioner.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PCB coating rs1026 Parts 10 2nd December 2011 11:08 PM
ESL Diaphragm Coating - HELP GlidingDutchman Planars & Exotics 9 14th March 2008 10:53 AM
Help with diaphragm coating furly Planars & Exotics 6 17th January 2006 08:23 PM
Diaphragm coating Bazukaz Planars & Exotics 9 15th January 2006 07:27 PM
ESL diaphragm coating I_Forgot Planars & Exotics 58 4th April 2005 05:54 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2