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Old 12th July 2012, 05:02 PM   #561
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legis View Post
I cannot think of any other reason. I applied the spray under and over the charge ring that covers the whole perimeter. HV lead is soldered to the ring. Charge ring's glue is also conductive.

The antistatic spray + car wax failed terribly, the sensitivity decreased 5dB more.

I quess I have to order licron.

By the way does mylar handle solvents well if I'm gonna clean the membrane from the antistatic spray and car wax with paint thinner? I have tried it on sample piece and have not seen any detrimental effect.
i cleaned mine again with alcohol (only antistatic spray) , worked for me. best is ofcourse to have new mylar, but you could give it a try. it wont hurt you as much as stretching again.

i never seen a solvend yet to destroy mylar , its out there for sure. i wont recomend thinner or something like that

Last edited by WrineX; 12th July 2012 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 12th July 2012, 05:23 PM   #562
Legis is online now Legis  Finland
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I have also drawn that conclusion, faster blinking has always translated to better sensitivity. Also the initial charge, when you power up the esl, is always faster set of very fast blinks with good coating. Wih bad coating the lamp does not blink nearly as fasty at the start, and panel builds up the charge guite long (spl goes up slowly), and never gets there where it should.
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Old 12th July 2012, 07:53 PM   #563
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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well he is right about the blinking, normaly if it does not blink that often its holding charge , or is not charging at all. But if you could measure your coating and have fast blinking after 5 minutes it indicates leakage.

Last edited by WrineX; 12th July 2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 12th July 2012, 08:26 PM   #564
Legis is online now Legis  Finland
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Actually the reason could be something else than the coating. After cleaning the membrane and double coating with antistatic spray the sensitivity rised only back what it was before(but the neon lamp returned blinking once per second).

Could the reason be in the contact to the membrane? The copper foil with conductive glue is some chinese off from ebay. I have measured it's glue's resistance to be low, but maybe it does not withstand the potential differences? Or has the membrane developed a negative charge on the uncoated backside?
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Old 12th July 2012, 08:33 PM   #565
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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easy way to make this connection is wit the copper tape make a ring on the stator without mylar , when 2 stators are bolted together you got your connection. and its on all sides of the membrane as well, no glue needed. also you can solder on the copper so you can let the copper tape get out between the stator, and solder from there.

less components less change on faulty stuff
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Old 13th July 2012, 08:06 AM   #566
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

if You have a working coating a slow blink rate is a good sign. It already follows from the working principle of the blinker, that a slow blinking rate is the goal. A blink every 30secs is a sign of good insulation, hence low leakage. Chinsettawong is fully right about the charge retaining capability here, not WrineX.
If the membrane is fully charged, the blinking rate is independant of the surface resistivity of the coating itself, but only due to leakage.
A increased blinking rate should and will only occur whilst charging or discharging the panel, and it should clearly reduce in frequency over the first 30secs.
A constant high blinking rate points towards probs with the insulation of the membrane coating, hence leakage. A invisible single sweaty fingerprint, a tiny trace of coating at the wrong position, or a unfortunate positioning of a HV-leading trace/wire could ruin low leakage easily. A constant low rate might be due to non-conduction of the coating.

Quote:
...when 2 stators are bolted together you got your connection........less components less change on faulty stuff
Since copper is prone to oxidation, the quality of contact may deteriorate faster than for a coated/sealed copper strip (membrane coating used as seal against environmental influences and oxidation). Pure copper strips indeed mean less components, but also mean a higher chance of fault.

jauu
Calvin

Last edited by Calvin; 13th July 2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 13th July 2012, 09:57 AM   #567
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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@calvin

So slow blinking workin coating means charged,
Slow blinking not working coating means , not working coating . Wich i ment to say . This means looking only at THE blinker does not. Tell you its holding charge in this manner, Could tell you THE coating sucks. Ur saying THE Same As i was 2 post back..

About the copper this Could be verry true, though i have several solosound pannels with hv of 4500 volt , from 1970's when you get them appart THE copper tape is in working order, THE mylar (arc spots) Will give up way before THE copper tape did.

Audio static used coper tape to i believe. Only à small piece
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Old 13th July 2012, 12:20 PM   #568
Legis is online now Legis  Finland
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I suspect that the connection to membrane is detoriated, I'll order double side conductive copper tape from 3M.

This place only seels to industial businesses: WEIDINGER - Antistatik-Überzug / 278 ml Already placed an order but got that in response.
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Old 13th July 2012, 12:26 PM   #569
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legis View Post
I suspect that the connection to membrane is detoriated, I'll order double side conductive copper tape from 3M.

This place only seels to industial businesses: WEIDINGER - Antistatik-Überzug / 278 ml Already placed an order but got that in response.
Same story everywhere, its anoying my last bottle i got for free As a sample to where do we get this stuff !!
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Old 13th July 2012, 12:34 PM   #570
Legis is online now Legis  Finland
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If someone (propably from the US) is willing to sell licron as pure liquid ~300ml in a random bottle, I would be interested, send pm. Paypal transfers the money, air mail the goods (but don't tell that to the postal worker)
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