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Old 6th January 2012, 03:11 PM   #511
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My point was about people claiming the moving mass of an esl being much lower compared to dynamic speakers. This is not true in case of fullrange esls compared with dynamic tweeters and both do want to produce the highest frequencies. You may compare the large esl with a woofer but the woofer doesn't need to be fast as it only takes care about the lows anyway. In fairness you may want to compare a small tweeter esl with a dynamic tweeter to prove that the esl is much lighter thus faster. But this makes little sense as cutting the size of an esl to the size of a tweeter doesn't make a faster thing as driving force is decreased with the same magnitude.
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Old 6th January 2012, 07:03 PM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexberg View Post
BTW
for the lazy ones there is 6500 in aerosol can. Not recommended by rep: "bottled is better" The smallest 6300 is 1 quart... 6400 even sticks to olefines (low surface energy plastics) such as PP and PE. Coating can be made extremely thin by dilution... Stretched coated Mylar to the break point: no flaking
Later,
Alex
P.S. 2 years so far so good.
Hello alexberg,

How long have you had your quart of 6300? Have you noticed any changes in its conductive properties?
I have had mine for 1 1/2 years now, and it no longer conducts.

I noticed the datasheet for the 6300 specifies a shelf life of only 3 months.
I contacted the company to get some clarification. Here is what I was told.

The particular type of acrylic polymers used in the 6300 coating are susceptible to bacteria once they are exposed to air in their liquid state. The product will “spoil” much the same way milk will spoil from bacteria exposure after a short period of time even if it’s kept cold. As the product "spoils" the resistivity increases until the the coating no longer conducts. However, once the liquid (while still “fresh”) is applied and dries to a film, it no longer is susceptible to bacteria.

The 3 month shelf life starts when the container is first opened.
Once opened, a 3-6month shelf life is typical depending on how much exposure to air it receives.
Unopened, it should last up to 1 year.
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Old 7th January 2012, 01:43 AM   #513
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Mine is about 2 years old and no good as well...

In regard to shelf life it's the same you've posted, see attach.
Alex
BTW 2 years on the previous post was about the coating on membrane.

QUOTE

What is the preferred method of application in order to obtain the resistivity specified?
Flow coating may be ideal, but the lab technician prefers spraying. I suppose it depends on your situation. This coating was designed to be applied in a variety of ways. The viscosity is closer to water than paint so if you spray, use a fine tip nozzle rather than the type of nozzle found on a paint sprayer. Our chemist uses a HVLP sprayer with a 1.0 mm tip.
If painting, I’ve had luck with a foam brush rather than a bristle brush, but painting or brushing is not as ideal as spraying, dipping, or flow coating.

What is surface preparation procedure?
Cleaning the surface with isopropyl alcohol is ideal. Apply coating in environments between 15C- 24C with 30-40% RH.
What is the curing method?
The 6300 is an air-dry coating, so no special curing method is needed. The coating should dry to the touch in a couple of hours and 95% dry overnight (7 days for 100% dry). If you desire a force dry method, we recommend placing coated parts in an oven (80C – 90C) for 15-30 minutes. The parts can be preheated at 60C –79C for better coverage.
How to check if the adhesion is as claimed?
We do not have an official way of checking adhesion. A tape test should give you an indication of adhesion. Coat a sample of the substrate with the 6300 and allow to dry for a week (for a full cure). Cut two intersecting lines at a 30 – 45 degree angle (like an X) using a razor blade (or something similar). Cut through the coating down to the substrate. Use a hard metal straightedge to ensure straight cuts. Press adhesive tape in the center intersection of the X and remove the tape in a rapid motion. Inspect the area around the X for any coating removed.

Product is going to be applied to PETF. We’ve tested mainly on acrylic and polycarbonate, but we’ve also tested on glass, polyester webbing, PET, PVC, and PETG. I suspect reasonable adhesion on most materials except polypropylene, Teflon...

END QUOTE
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File Type: jpg shelf_life.jpg (39.7 KB, 288 views)
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Old 7th January 2012, 04:06 AM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexberg View Post
Mine is about 2 years old and no good as well...

In regard to shelf life it's the same you've posted, see attach.
Alex
BTW 2 years on the previous post was about the coating on membrane.
understood...the 2 years mentioned was for a cured coating.

Oh, and thanks for the additional application information.
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Old 17th January 2012, 04:25 AM   #515
Sype is offline Sype  Finland
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Is it possible to mix Antistatik100 with elvamide? I used Antistatik 100 coating in my esl prototypes but surface resistance is little too low, about 10e7-10e8. Or should I just try elvamide coating?
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Old 17th January 2012, 07:36 AM   #516
SM7UYJ is offline SM7UYJ  Sweden
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I dont know what Antistatik100 is and how soulable it is with Elvamide.

I have tried a Swedish permanent antistatic and Staticide 6300 and they both mix well with Elvamide so you should be ok!

/R
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Old 17th January 2012, 07:40 AM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sype View Post
Is it possible to mix Antistatik100 with elvamide? I used Antistatik 100 coating in my esl prototypes but surface resistance is little too low, about 10e7-10e8. Or should I just try elvamide coating?
The product you've mentioned is a topical one
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Old 20th January 2012, 03:55 PM   #518
Atom666 is offline Atom666  Canada
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Hi
So the most stable and longest shelf life is still Licron?
Andrew
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Old 20th January 2012, 11:47 PM   #519
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So far I haven't had any issues with either formula.
Although I have the aerosol types.

I have had a can of the original formula since 2003 and it has been in freezing conditions out in the garage and I just shake it up good and it still worked.

The little panel that I had just got back running still has the original diagphram with the same coating on it since 2003.

So far I have the same results with the Licron Crystal type as a cured coating.
I have had that can for two years now on a couple of my diagphrams with no problems yet.
I haven't used it recently and according to Techspray there shouldn't be any problems with that formula either.

I will find out sometime shortly as I do need to replace the diagphrams on my little panels because of some burn holes and for a new build that I am planning.

I have not yet tried the stuff in a bulk container yet .
I don't recall any shelf life warnings in the Techspray info sheets.


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Old 21st January 2012, 03:04 AM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atom666 View Post
Hi
So the most stable and longest shelf life is still Licron?
Andrew
Why would one expect that self-polymerizing one component varnish gonna be good forever? It's not saline...
Seems that any hermetically sealed product is the proper one...
Water based product can be shipped by air - that was 1st decisive factor for me. Water based product dries much slower and I would never change such a convenience for a shelf life.
There are better materials as well - you would not like the price
On the other hand, also it's a stretch, would you use expired food?
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