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Old 27th June 2010, 02:57 PM   #401
Nevod is offline Nevod  Russian Federation
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alexberg
I recall somewhere in this thread mentionings om a limit on how low the resistance of graphite coating can be, and it seems that you're right, if the carbon, or, more generally, particle-based conductor, is too diluted, the conducting chain is broken and there's no current at all. Pva is conductive by itself and so works well with graphite/ink.

While molecules of antistatic coating are, of course, also particles, they are small enought so that we can assume that conductivity just simply lowers with dilution, and does not suddenly gets 'turned off'.

So, well, we return back to phil47's second recipe - acrylic varnish for binding and antistatic liquid for conduction. Some liquids may bind well by themselves, but most wouldn't.
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Old 27th June 2010, 04:40 PM   #402
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To Nevod
Please don't waste your time as I did, buyign all kind of cr...p.
Even emulsion type acrylic containing polymer particles i.e. porous by definition and datasheet, blocks conductivity nicely.
The coating I choose looks like aussie staff and costs about the same or cheaper, a lot cheaper if you buy a gallon
Can be procured even in RF and readily available in EU/US.
Comes in aerosol cans as well as plain plastic bottles.
Alex
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Old 28th June 2010, 01:51 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexberg View Post
To Nevod
Please don't waste your time as I did, buyign all kind of cr...p.
Even emulsion type acrylic containing polymer particles i.e. porous by definition and datasheet, blocks conductivity nicely.
The coating I choose looks like aussie staff and costs about the same or cheaper, a lot cheaper if you buy a gallon
Can be procured even in RF and readily available in EU/US.
Comes in aerosol cans as well as plain plastic bottles.
Alex
You probably mentioned it somewhere already, but which coating are you refering to?
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Old 28th June 2010, 03:10 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arend-jan View Post
You probably mentioned it somewhere already, but which coating are you refering to?
I beg your pardon for repeating myself.
It's easier to find than one may think... The answer was right under my nose.
Even so, I have found approach taken by Martin-Jan quite appropriate.
Moreover, neither I have a proof for coating durability as holland master has nor I am interested in making quick buck.

Yours truly,
Alex
P.S. Please try to google "Static control producs"
It is similar, by TDS, to the floor coatings, and the latter have been mentioned already as well.
P.P.S. I would love to share it for the shipping cost but it is just unreal
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Old 5th July 2010, 06:43 PM   #405
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To anyone who may know about this a question.
If one was able to accurately control the density of a given coating across a diaphragm would it be better to have heavier on the outer perimeter and graduated to less as you get to the center or would the opposite be true? IOW would there be a charge migration control or other advantage in performance if the coating could be gradated in such a way?
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Old 5th July 2010, 07:56 PM   #406
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Hi Speedracer,

The best way to prevent charge migration is to use a coating with adequate surface resistance, which is around 1 giga-ohm. It should be around this value anywhere, despite mass/density.
A very thick coating at the perimeter might reduce HF response but thats another story.
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Old 6th July 2010, 03:27 AM   #407
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Thanks MJ.
And yes I understand from this and many threads about the surface resistance. What I meant to say is that other threads talk about charge migration and it also occurred to me that maybe it might be an advantage to manipulate the charge with coating density differences. So if a particularly good coating with good surface resistance is used is it a factor when variations in coating thickness or density is done? Does more charge go to more dense areas of coating? What if the coating could be applied as a pattern such as printed on or tooled on in such a way as to vary the thickness? Or is it simply a matter of putting on as thin of a working coat as possible? I don't think the variations I'm considering would effectively change the mass of the diaphragm. I'm talking about micro adjustments here in a machine applied process.
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Old 6th July 2010, 03:28 AM   #408
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Default The magic coating name

Below is the list of some static dissipative coatings producers.
Common component is metal crosslink acrylic polymer.
Another thing to look for is the color - most acrylic are somewhat grey-blue-green.
The latter probably is due to polyanilin, also MSDS do not corfirm/deny it.
STATICWORX
DESCO
TECHSPRAY
ESDPRODUCS
STATICIDE
PERMA
JULIEINDUSTRIES
LEGGESYSTEMS
Choose the one on avail or easiest to find and try it.
There were other companies already mentioned in this thread as well.
Products' primary use is floor coating where durabilty and scratch
resistance is a must, some intentionally designed for plastics and some
can stay on surface inert ones like polypropylene.
Another set of coatings are "ultra-high-end" natotube based - really price prohibitive,
you may see for your self, if you'd like.
With the best regards,
Alex
To arend-jan: I have talked (over the phone) to quite a few applications engineers of the companies above.
Besides the assurance that their product is the best one may find, they do confirm that it would not flake out.
The one I have managed to obtain can not be separated from PET film by contact adhesive.
This is also true for vynil floor coatings with "anti-static effect" from hardware stores.
Almost forgot - there is a company with NANO polyanilin coating - falls into NANO price range
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Old 6th July 2010, 04:26 AM   #409
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More info on the Techspray:
This past week I built another pair of stat panels using the Licron Crystal areosol spray coating from Techspray. Including shipping, this stuff is $50 a can and I had already used most of it on Mavric's panels and some other panels I had built earlier. Anyway, I didn't have enough left to get a full wet coat on these panels. (As I mentioned in an earlier post, it takes quite a wet application to get a continuous smooth coating, which looks very thick initially but dries fairly thin-- about 2 microns once all the solvents flash off). For these panels, I sprayed a small amount of the Licron on a 2" wide foam brush, then sprayed the remainder of then can on the panels and used the pre-wetted brush to smooth out the coating. I got a fair amount on the panels, just not enough to form a continuous wet coating, but the brush did a beautiful job of smoothing out the coating and the resulting panels sound wonderful.
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:46 AM   #410
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Default NANO staff

Project float 703 is yet another reference
QUOTE
Marc Schroeyers provided the following information:
CONDUCTIVE COATING FOR PLASTIC FILM: at the following website you will find information on ‘ORMECON LACQUER’ 901210/17 or 900256: Welcome to Ormecon International!
These products enable you to apply a lasting, inert, conductive coating on plastic film; the surface resistance (depending on layer thickness) can be varied between 10exp3 to 10exp12 ohm-square.
SKIPPED
A drawback is the cost: I informed at Zipperling, they charge around 750USD for 0.75liter
END QUOTE
Enthone - A High Performance Specialty Chemical Company
It used to have much more info with formulations, etc.
L5001e is xylene based coating, L5008W is water based
Substrates:PU, PP, PC, PMMA, PET, PA, PVC

Yet another one, very friendly people
H.C. Starck - Applications=
Quote from Clevios, pr 100ml: Euro 420/kg / 10 = 42 + 195 = Euro 237 (for 0,1 kg)
195 is small batch charge
Alex
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