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Old 6th January 2010, 08:39 PM   #261
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A very simple method of preparing soluble Nylon 6.6
In a glass bottle to pour 50 ml. phenol (pre-heating of the phenol with tempereture 45 grd.C, it becomes liquid on heating)
Add 10ml of isopropanol alcohol and cut to the same small pieces of the ties for electrical cable .
Close the bottle tightly. Leave in a dry warm place for 48 hours.
Закрыть плотно бутылку. Оставить в сухом теплом месте на 48 часов.
Close the bottle tightly. Leave in a dry warm place for 48 hours.
P.S. All work done in a well ventilated area.
A large concentration of phenol vapors cause poisoning. Be very careful.

Last edited by Statics man; 6th January 2010 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 6th January 2010, 09:28 PM   #262
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Click the image to open in full size.
The material for nylon 6.6
One сlamper = 0.5 gr.neylon 6.6
We need 2.5 g .= 5 pcs. сlamers
P.S.
Proportion for nylon coating:
1. 50ml phenol
2. 10ml isopropanol alcohol
3. 2.5gr. Nylon 6.6

Last edited by Statics man; 6th January 2010 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 7th January 2010, 08:44 AM   #263
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

1. Coat glass plate with soap water and flatten out mylar film
A: donīt use soap. Soap is conductive under HV-conditions! Its resistance stays not constant over time and is humidity dependant.
If You spray a bit of purified deionized water (automotive supply for car batteries) on the plate it will be fine.

2. Fit mylar diaphragm to temporary frame with double sided tape
Clean the mylar with ?? Soap and water in shower?Acetone?
A: If it comes off of the roll and You work it immediately the mylar is clean. For the soap see 1). If You feel cleaning is needed, use something that evaporates without residues.

3. Apply luke warm Elvamide solution (doped with ink or not?) Spray or roll?
A: Is it sprayable at all?? If so both methods work. Spraying leads to thicker coatings.

5. Carefully heat shrink mylar film hopefully also create a clear elvamide coating
6. Glue membrane to stator/spacer assembly one side using Loctite 303 with activator (One component on spacer, one coponent on film)

A: interchange steps 5 and 6. Your membrane is already flattened and prestretched! Btw: remember to stretch the membrane always as hard as possible to reach the required resonance frequency. Low mechanical tension is bad! Heat treatment releases tension a bit anyway!

7. Glue other stator/spacer on top of the other
A: I would do this -if anyhow- as one of the last steps and only after I tested the coating on function (just the single stator needed). Final tests before glueing can be done with the stators clamped together.

jauu
Calvin

Last edited by Calvin; 7th January 2010 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:59 AM   #264
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Question: why not "dope" the Nylon6.6 solution with some sort of carbon black containing material or just carbon? A permanent ink that has an alcohol base might work?? Skip the graphite rub part entirely??

_-_-

PS. I'd use a chemical rated respirator myself, and proper gloves, work outside in the warm or with a fan sucking out and another pressurizing in a closed room. None of this stuff kills you outright, but you can get things like Leukemia if you live long enough...
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http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
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Old 7th January 2010, 04:34 PM   #265
bentl is offline bentl  Norway
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I was not intending to use graphite at all - just Elvamide, possibly with some drops of ink.

Regarding working outside; it's -22 degr C here but i doubt that Elvamide is particulary harmful as it is used to coat cloth and thread for clothes industry. The Elvamide is dissolved in alcohol and should not be a problem

Regards,
Bent
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Old 7th January 2010, 08:36 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear View Post
Question: why not "dope" the Nylon6.6 solution with some sort of carbon black containing material or just carbon? A permanent ink that has an alcohol base might work?? Skip the graphite rub part entirely??

_-_-

PS. I'd use a chemical rated respirator myself, and proper gloves, work outside in the warm or with a fan sucking out and another pressurizing in a closed room. None of this stuff kills you outright, but you can get things like Leukemia if you live long enough...
Why not. Possible addition of graphite dust or the Carbon nanotubes.
Adding Carbon nanotubes will enable ESL super transparent coating film.
Be sufficient additives 1% the Carbon nanotubes, to obtain the conductivity of the coating 1e9 ohms.

P.S. I agree with you 100% .But formaldehyde resin coating around us everywhere
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:51 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentl View Post
I was not intending to use graphite at all - just Elvamide, possibly with some drops of ink.

Regarding working outside; it's -22 degr C here but i doubt that Elvamide is particulary harmful as it is used to coat cloth and thread for clothes industry. The Elvamide is dissolved in alcohol and should not be a problem

Regards,
Bent
Phenol is also soluble in alcohol.
for Elvamide need to work in a well ventilated area.
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Old 18th January 2010, 01:50 AM   #268
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Hi Everybody,

I just tried a mixture of PVA glue (20%) + water (80%) + 1 drop of black poster ink. It worked great. My friend in Taiwan also tried the same formula but used a drop of black ink from bubble jet printer and it worked fine too.

Just for your information.

Wachara C.
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Old 18th January 2010, 02:41 AM   #269
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Default Really that simple?

Hi Wach, is it really that simple? Or am I missing something?
Durability over time comes to mind, Please elaborate my friend,

Thank you, Steve
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Old 18th January 2010, 05:11 AM   #270
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hi everybody im jerry and new here. I used licron on my first panels in 2003 and they still work today.the panels can be taken apart to try diffrent spacings.simple and cheap!during the taking them apart and back again many many times i had managed to scratch the mylar and few times delibretly to test the durabilty,the licron would bubble up.but as long as it didnt flake off,hitting it with a heatgun would melt it back to the mylar(.25mil)and fix the crease the scratch caused.it has been along(7 yrs.) while since i have messed with esl designing i've made quite a few and tried all sorts of materials.but now im getting back into it.i just finished a hd driver using two credit cards ,pcb , .1 mil mylar and licron works on 500v bais as first test. will elabroate if intrested .i would like to try elevamide myself i had a suppler in 03 it is cheap but never got any the licron was a free sample. it has its own drawbacks(like everthing else)but is very durable i only coated the paneles once in 03 and they still work today i have enjoyed reading everyones posts through the years! thanks.p.s. any bad scratches are easly fixed because its an areosol as far as sound quality (nearfleid) they rate right up there with my apogee duettes imo its all good!
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