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Old 19th July 2009, 03:59 PM   #141
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Default Re: Call me a dreamer if you like...

Quote:
Originally posted by arend-jan

What would this forum be like if we start sharing everything we know?

I get the impression that we like to talk about stuff in here, but when it comes to providing actual information it often gets rather quiet. Or is it just me?
In other words: I don't think we have made any progress in this thread except for the corona treatment device posted by SY.

I understand that for those involved in making a buck from this, that there are some things that won't be shared. There are some things I won't share either, so I leave those subjects at home. There is not much point in bringing them up without the intend to give full disclosure.

Wouldn't you agree that we could all make much more progress if we work together? You may think you're the smartest kid on the block, but believe me we could all learn from each other! Look for example at the open source community. Do you think Linux could have gotten where it is today if those developers were all keeping secrets from each other? Think about it.

Now like I said I'm no saint, I have my "secrets". But I sometimes wish I didn't.
Wow, Arend-Jan! You have got to be one of the most honest guys who speaks out loud I've ever known. I am thinking the same way you are thinking. If we can share everything that we know, who knows that we might end up making something a lot better than what we are doing today.

Count me in for sharing everything that one knows. I have no secrets, and am willing to share anything. I have learned a lot from here, and I'm willing to give many folds back.

Wachara C.
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Old 21st July 2009, 09:12 PM   #142
AuroraB is offline AuroraB  Norway
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I just wonder, Jonas.....
if the now obsolete ingregient was the now obsolete nylon wash cream sold here in Scandinavia..........?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 07:44 AM   #143
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AuroraB, no that was not the ingredient.

It was a dissipative floor polish called Prostat DFP-410 which was modified to harden better by adding the content of a permanent
marker pen per 350 ml polish. Sorry for the late answers, been on vacation....
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Old 22nd July 2009, 01:38 PM   #144
Few is offline Few  United States
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A quick search for similar(?) material brought up Vermason C901 floor polish. It supposedly yields 10^7 - 10^10 ohms/square when applied in the usual concentration and >30% humidity. I'd be a bit concerned that their data sheet says it performs best between 30 and 65% humidity. That makes it sounds like its performance would be fairly humidity dependent--exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

Few
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Old 22nd July 2009, 01:45 PM   #145
SY is offline SY  United States
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For OEMs, an interesting alternative is to add some Ciba Irgastat P, maybe 10%, to Surlyn or similar ionomer. That would extrude and downgauge very nicely, and the films are very tough and flexible. In previous work, I found that the conductivity was pretty insensitive to humidity. As a bonus, the film is clear and with conductivity throughout the bulk, the charge distribution will be quite even.

Again, not practical for the diyer, but it would be nice if one of the larger manufacturers used some actual up-to-date technology instead of rehashing 30 year old methods.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 02:26 PM   #146
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Ok, and as I remember it, Prostat was very humidity independent. It could be used on a outdoor dance hall floor in
the Mojave desert.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 02:57 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Few
A quick search for similar(?) material brought up Vermason C901 floor polish. It supposedly yields 10^7 - 10^10 ohms/square when applied in the usual concentration and >30% humidity. I'd be a bit concerned that their data sheet says it performs best between 30 and 65% humidity. That makes it sounds like its performance would be fairly humidity dependent--exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

Few
Perhaps the floor polish made by Techspray could work?

It is described as being humidity independent:
"This product is a high gloss floor finish designed for use in electronic production areas, computer rooms and other static sensitive areas. Contains a non-migratory, static dissipative polymer which will maintain a constant surface resistivity of 106 to 108 ohms throughout the humidity spectrum.Zinc free. High Gloss. Slip Resistant. Works in low humidity."

Attached is the spec sheet.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf licron_1720.pdf (55.6 KB, 75 views)
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Old 22nd July 2009, 03:06 PM   #148
pongola is offline pongola  South Africa
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I found a website with prostat DPF 410. It did give me a malware warning but I decided to take a chance. The link is http://www.xsential.com/wor_floorstaticides.htm and the Xsential details off this website are

12624 Daphne Ave
Hawthorne, CA 90250

(800) 829-9994 Toll free
323-241-1800 Direct
323-241-1809 Fax
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Old 22nd July 2009, 03:45 PM   #149
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Bolserst, the bottle looks identical...and the second and third
ingredient on the Licron list can be found in DFP-410 as well.

The Ammonium Hydroxide and Acrylic Copolymer is also
found in DFP-410...
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Old 22nd July 2009, 06:36 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonasKarud
Bolserst, the bottle looks identical...and the second and third
ingredient on the Licron list can be found in DFP-410 as well.

The Ammonium Hydroxide and Acrylic Copolymer is also
found in DFP-410...
There is a local supplier here in Fort Worth that I can get a gallon for $60. Not too painful. I could certainly send some out to those interested in experimenting with the understanding that they would share their results. I don't think the Post office would have any issues with mailing floor polish.

Assuming the chemical makeup of Techspray 1720 floor polish is very similar to the Prostat DFP-410 then to make a suitable high resistance coating:

1) Take 350mL of 1720 and add contents of one permanent marker. Sharpie markers should work? pick your color?

2) After mixing, dilute somewhere between 1:5 and 1:10 with distilled water to get the resistance you are looking for.

3) Application by rubbing on with cloth. Circular motion like waxing a car? or long extending strokes like painting?

Sound about right?

I like the idea of being able to mix up a lower resistance solution to use on the edges and around the perimeter of the panel. Then switch to the higher resistance solution for the active area of the diaphragm that will actually be moving and under the influence of the stator's electrostatic field.


Oh, I have sent off an email to Techspray inquiring about shelf life and best storage techniques since the data sheet did not provide this info.
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