ESL Diaphragm coating - Page 14

arend-jan · 17th July 2009, 11:31 AM

Hi Martin-Jan

for your convenience, here is the plot of the distortion vs SR. The panel is an electrostatic headphone made of circuit board.

I quote from a previous post:

"I redid the experiment with the low S/R (1E7) coating and a series resistor of 1E9. With and without the series resistor was only a very small difference in distortion level, absolutely not comparable to what we have seen with the 4E11 coating.

Then I constructed a 5E10 Ohm series resistor but could not get the same level of charge on the diaphragm, and as a consequence the output was about -10dB compared to before. Distortion levels were still up high as with the 1E9 series resistor. "

Few · 17th July 2009, 03:42 PM

Arend-Jan,
Is there a problem with using the nylon coating that you used to create a high resistance coating for your tests?
Few

arend-jan · 17th July 2009, 03:50 PM

Hi Few,

It's not as easy to apply as modern coatings, and not as super lightweight and thin as conductive polymer coating for example. In reality it works quite well once you get the hang of it, but I suppose we're always looking for 'new and improved', right?

chinsettawong · 17th July 2009, 04:18 PM

Hi Arend-Jan,

Can I send you a small sample of my recipe for you to take the measurement? I really wonder how mine is.

Wachara C.

arend-jan · 17th July 2009, 04:29 PM

Hi Wachara,

sure, no problem. Are you having troubles with the measurement?

chinsettawong · 17th July 2009, 05:07 PM

I have access to the measuring device but I'm not sure how to make an accurate measurement. Maybe I'll take a few photos of the high resistance meter and you can help me.

Wachara C.

arend-jan · 17th July 2009, 05:19 PM

Hi Wachara,

sure, send me an e-mail.

arend-jan · 19th July 2009, 09:12 AM

What would this forum be like if we start sharing everything we know?

I get the impression that we like to talk about stuff in here, but when it comes to providing actual information it often gets rather quiet. Or is it just me?
In other words: I don't think we have made any progress in this thread except for the corona treatment device posted by SY.

I understand that for those involved in making a buck from this, that there are some things that won't be shared. There are some things I won't share either, so I leave those subjects at home. There is not much point in bringing them up without the intend to give full disclosure.

Wouldn't you agree that we could all make much more progress if we work together? You may think you're the smartest kid on the block, but believe me we could all learn from each other! Look for example at the open source community. Do you think Linux could have gotten where it is today if those developers were all keeping secrets from each other? Think about it.

Now like I said I'm no saint, I have my "secrets". But I sometimes wish I didn't.

WrineX · 19th July 2009, 11:46 AM

hmm one thing , does anybody know what coating SOLOSOUND used , because they are still playing 38 years later, it whas low resistance under 1 Meg. i believe twistatic stil uses the same sort, look a little bit dark.

SY · 19th July 2009, 01:20 PM

Low resistance, dark coating- it's probably a carbon-black filled vinyl, not much different than Acoustat's (I think they used polystyrene as a base). Getting low resistance is easy, but as several posters have pointed out, high resistance coatings correlate with lower distortion.

19th July 2009, 09:12 AM	#138
arend-jan diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Call me a dreamer if you like... What would this forum be like if we start sharing everything we know? I get the impression that we like to talk about stuff in here, but when it comes to providing actual information it often gets rather quiet. Or is it just me? In other words: I don't think we have made any progress in this thread except for the corona treatment device posted by SY. I understand that for those involved in making a buck from this, that there are some things that won't be shared. There are some things I won't share either, so I leave those subjects at home. There is not much point in bringing them up without the intend to give full disclosure. Wouldn't you agree that we could all make much more progress if we work together? You may think you're the smartest kid on the block, but believe me we could all learn from each other! Look for example at the open source community. Do you think Linux could have gotten where it is today if those developers were all keeping secrets from each other? Think about it. Now like I said I'm no saint, I have my "secrets". But I sometimes wish I didn't.

19th July 2009, 01:20 PM	#140
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Blog Entries: 1	Low resistance, dark coating- it's probably a carbon-black filled vinyl, not much different than Acoustat's (I think they used polystyrene as a base). Getting low resistance is easy, but as several posters have pointed out, high resistance coatings correlate with lower distortion. __________________ If there's a sucker born every minute, where do the rest of them come from?

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17th July 2009, 11:31 AM	#131
arend-jan diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Hi Martin-Jan for your convenience, here is the plot of the distortion vs SR. The panel is an electrostatic headphone made of circuit board. I quote from a previous post: "I redid the experiment with the low S/R (1E7) coating and a series resistor of 1E9. With and without the series resistor was only a very small difference in distortion level, absolutely not comparable to what we have seen with the 4E11 coating. Then I constructed a 5E10 Ohm series resistor but could not get the same level of charge on the diaphragm, and as a consequence the output was about -10dB compared to before. Distortion levels were still up high as with the 1E9 series resistor. "

17th July 2009, 03:42 PM	#132
Few diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Maine, USA	Arend-Jan, Is there a problem with using the nylon coating that you used to create a high resistance coating for your tests? Few

17th July 2009, 03:50 PM	#133
arend-jan diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Hi Few, It's not as easy to apply as modern coatings, and not as super lightweight and thin as conductive polymer coating for example. In reality it works quite well once you get the hang of it, but I suppose we're always looking for 'new and improved', right?

17th July 2009, 04:18 PM	#134
chinsettawong diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Hi Arend-Jan, Can I send you a small sample of my recipe for you to take the measurement? I really wonder how mine is. Wachara C.

17th July 2009, 04:29 PM	#135
arend-jan diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Hi Wachara, sure, no problem. Are you having troubles with the measurement?

17th July 2009, 05:07 PM	#136
chinsettawong diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2006	I have access to the measuring device but I'm not sure how to make an accurate measurement. Maybe I'll take a few photos of the high resistance meter and you can help me. Wachara C.

17th July 2009, 05:19 PM	#137
arend-jan diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Hi Wachara, sure, send me an e-mail.

19th July 2009, 11:46 AM	#139
WrineX diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Den Haag	hmm one thing , does anybody know what coating SOLOSOUND used , because they are still playing 38 years later, it whas low resistance under 1 Meg. i believe twistatic stil uses the same sort, look a little bit dark.