Nearfield ribbon?

8675309 · 1st August 2007, 01:58 PM

I am very interested in using a ribbon in a near field setup. Everyone I have talked too tells me not to do this. My question is why can you not implement this correctly. I am not a novice by any means but I am fresh to ribbon technology. It seems that everyone has an impression that it has to play to 20hz and has to play loud on another forum I visit. This is OK for car but in a home easy listening and moderate volume should work OK.

For example if the midbass I use has a 1-watt SPL of 90 and the ribbon has a 1-watt of 96, could an LPAD of – 9 db be enough to tame the ribbon?

The availability of ribbon headphones makes me question the fact that ribbons are not good for near field.

Drivers I will use are
Usher 8945A in each cabinet bass reflex
I will design the crossover around the drivers and test to tweak for better sound.

I would like to use one of the three. And I am leaning more on the Fountek NeoCD3.oms
.
Fountek NeoCD3.oms. I like the look of the driver and it appears to fit my needs.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...3d2d03384d1897

HIVI RT2-PRO I like this driver and I think it would fit my build. It looks great. The price may put this out of my budget. But I may swing the extra cost if needed.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-404

HIVI RT8-II I love the way this driver looks but I think it may be a little much for my needs
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-413

oshifis · 1st August 2007, 02:31 PM

There are ribbon loadspeakers, check Apogee.

valveitude · 3rd August 2007, 03:01 AM

Quote:

The availability of ribbon headphones makes me question the fact that ribbons are not good for near field.

The fact that there has been numerous successful speaker designs through the years that utilized ribbons, in one form or another, in 2 and 3 way speakers makes me question this claim. Infinity with the EMIT, and ESS with the HEIL (ya I know, not really a ribbon) to name just 2. I have heard countless commercial, as well as diy speakers that have used ribbons in smallish listening rooms..they all sounded good to varying degrees. I even set up a pair of Apogee hybrids in a room 8' x 10' at my bosses request just to show customers it could be done.

Quote:

For example if the midbass I use has a 1-watt SPL of 90 and the ribbon has a 1-watt of 96, could an LPAD of – 9 db be enough to tame the ribbon?

Yep.

I would be curious to know what you were told that would preclude their use in a home environment.

Casey

8675309 · 3rd August 2007, 07:48 PM

A well known raw driver store "not parts express" told me that it was not possible to create a good 2 way with a ribbon and 7. I will not name the company because I do not want to flame them. They told me that the ribbons are to directional. And Nearfield will not yield a good image.

Here is my theory. I purchased the HiVi RT8-II because it is a mid/tweeter. Recomended cross point is 1700 on the HIVI. I figured I could do a 18 DB 1800 slope on the tweeter and 6 db 1800 slope on the mid and have a useable speaker with no more than 30 watts per side. I will Lpad around -1 / -3 of the actual Mid sensitivity. This will change with testing and time I am sure.

I went ahead and purchased the Fountek Neo 3's for a 3 way tower. I may try them out on the 2 way also. The slope will be closer to 2500 or higher with these drivers.

The 3 way will use the Fountek Neo 3, Peerless 4 inch mid's "Have nice flat use out to 5000", and an undetermined sub. This project will be a fiew months out.

peufeu · 3rd August 2007, 08:39 PM

All drivers are directional at some frequency, but you probably know that... for ribbons it depends on the length of the ribbon. The longer, the more directional at HF. In nearfield, reflections are less important, you hear more of the direct wave, so you may hear funky stuff while moving your head. (that doesn't happen with headphones since they move with your head). I listened to some ribbons and the sound definitely changes when you get up from the seat. But yeah, it sounded good !

> I will Lpad around -1 / -3 of the actual Mid sensitivity.

Come on, grab a few LM3886 and make those babies active

The cost of an active XO channel (opamps + caps + LM3886) compares favourably to a few good quality passive XO parts (like big air core coils, big caps, etc). For a 2 way it's OK, but for a 3 way the woofer XO parts start to get a bit too massive...

> Recomended cross point is 1700 on the HIVI

Try a distortion analysis first... I'm totally hand-waving, but "know your drivers" is the word ; some ribbons distort a lot at LF.

el`Ol · 4th August 2007, 05:57 AM

What is the reason why so many nearfield monitors have waveguides? And would a ribbon with waveguide be an advantage for a nearfield setup?

1st August 2007, 01:58 PM	#1
8675309 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007	Nearfield ribbon? I am very interested in using a ribbon in a near field setup. Everyone I have talked too tells me not to do this. My question is why can you not implement this correctly. I am not a novice by any means but I am fresh to ribbon technology. It seems that everyone has an impression that it has to play to 20hz and has to play loud on another forum I visit. This is OK for car but in a home easy listening and moderate volume should work OK. For example if the midbass I use has a 1-watt SPL of 90 and the ribbon has a 1-watt of 96, could an LPAD of – 9 db be enough to tame the ribbon? The availability of ribbon headphones makes me question the fact that ribbons are not good for near field. Drivers I will use are Usher 8945A in each cabinet bass reflex I will design the crossover around the drivers and test to tweak for better sound. I would like to use one of the three. And I am leaning more on the Fountek NeoCD3.oms . Fountek NeoCD3.oms. I like the look of the driver and it appears to fit my needs. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...3d2d03384d1897 HIVI RT2-PRO I like this driver and I think it would fit my build. It looks great. The price may put this out of my budget. But I may swing the extra cost if needed. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-404 HIVI RT8-II I love the way this driver looks but I think it may be a little much for my needs http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-413 __________________ I have tried it all in audio.

3rd August 2007, 07:48 PM	#4
8675309 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007	A well known raw driver store "not parts express" told me that it was not possible to create a good 2 way with a ribbon and 7. I will not name the company because I do not want to flame them. They told me that the ribbons are to directional. And Nearfield will not yield a good image. Here is my theory. I purchased the HiVi RT8-II because it is a mid/tweeter. Recomended cross point is 1700 on the HIVI. I figured I could do a 18 DB 1800 slope on the tweeter and 6 db 1800 slope on the mid and have a useable speaker with no more than 30 watts per side. I will Lpad around -1 / -3 of the actual Mid sensitivity. This will change with testing and time I am sure. I went ahead and purchased the Fountek Neo 3's for a 3 way tower. I may try them out on the 2 way also. The slope will be closer to 2500 or higher with these drivers. The 3 way will use the Fountek Neo 3, Peerless 4 inch mid's "Have nice flat use out to 5000", and an undetermined sub. This project will be a fiew months out. __________________ I have tried it all in audio.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Fountek ribbon tweeter 3cm2 ribbon black square alumunum faceplate	lduarte1973	Multi-Way	3	16th June 2009 08:50 AM
Nearfield monitor questions	echosystm	Multi-Way	10	18th January 2007 01:34 PM
Nearfield listening	xyrium	Multi-Way	3	10th July 2006 10:35 AM
Nearfield Stargate	Magnetar	Multi-Way	18	27th July 2005 02:38 PM
re: nearfield monitors	jeantofte	Multi-Way	5	12th October 2002 10:27 AM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

1st August 2007, 02:31 PM	#2
oshifis diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Budapest, Hungary	There are ribbon loadspeakers, check Apogee.

3rd August 2007, 08:39 PM	#5
peufeu diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lyon, France	All drivers are directional at some frequency, but you probably know that... for ribbons it depends on the length of the ribbon. The longer, the more directional at HF. In nearfield, reflections are less important, you hear more of the direct wave, so you may hear funky stuff while moving your head. (that doesn't happen with headphones since they move with your head). I listened to some ribbons and the sound definitely changes when you get up from the seat. But yeah, it sounded good ! > I will Lpad around -1 / -3 of the actual Mid sensitivity. Come on, grab a few LM3886 and make those babies active The cost of an active XO channel (opamps + caps + LM3886) compares favourably to a few good quality passive XO parts (like big air core coils, big caps, etc). For a 2 way it's OK, but for a 3 way the woofer XO parts start to get a bit too massive... > Recomended cross point is 1700 on the HIVI Try a distortion analysis first... I'm totally hand-waving, but "know your drivers" is the word ; some ribbons distort a lot at LF.

4th August 2007, 05:57 AM	#6
el`Ol diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bavarian Forest	What is the reason why so many nearfield monitors have waveguides? And would a ribbon with waveguide be an advantage for a nearfield setup?