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Old 13th July 2007, 11:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Capaciti
Hi,


Finally it is a question of the option you have, which method to use. With bended Panels like ML no choice but spacers, with flat panels spacers or dots. Thats it.

Capaciti

Hi,

Oops, I intended to use dots in my curved wire esl.
Why wouldn't dots be a option in a bended ESL?
I guess because of the vertical tension, I should use several dots horizontally in each segment, but I expect the same benefits if done properly.
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Old 13th July 2007, 03:47 PM   #32
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Hi Martin Jan,

to support a bended ESL properly, you will need so much dots horizontal, that you can use spacers as well.

Even a small distance between each dot will enable the membrane to collapse towards the rear stator.

BTW: I guess you made a lot of flat ESL prior to this bended project. My guess is, that you will be astonished how much possible excursion is wasted by a bended ESL in comparison to a flat panel, so do not expect same maxpressure at lower frequencies. Bended ones are perfect from 300 Hz up, but really compromised lower than 300 Hz

Capaciti
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Old 13th July 2007, 04:38 PM   #33
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Hi Capaciti,

My intention was to run the bended esl from 300 or 350 Hz indeed. Your right about the excursion issue although I expect a reaction from Calvin at this point as he uses only 1 mm spacing.
The tension technique and the precision of manufacturing has certainly a lot to do with this as I discovered with my first bended prototype.

I am not using the dots to prevent collapse (not possible with the silicone dots anyway unless you apply them before the bending)
I want to reduce the resonance of the membrane with the dots so I can avoid the nasty notch filter and/or use a gentle crossover slope.

Regards, Martin-Jan
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Old 13th July 2007, 05:21 PM   #34
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Hi Martin-jan,

now i understand and i think thats quite feasible, but do not expect miracles regarding flatening of fundemental resonance.

The dots have some impact on resonance behaviour, but its limited.

The only effective ways are flow resitors on the rearside as used by acoustat in the center of the panels, or to increase the mass load by air volume. But sufficient additional air load requires large baffle width and/or very low resonace frequency (< 30Hz) which is critical regarding stability of membrane and subsonic overload.

I am interested to get some feedback on your bended wire ESL with spacers and dots. Is it just a concept or in progress ?

Capaciti
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Old 14th July 2007, 09:11 AM   #35
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Hi Capaciti,


Apparantly, mounting the wings will also add some air mass and decrease resonance? I also will make the segments of slightly different size in future to further spread the resonance. ML does the same thing.

I already finished a small curved wire esl prototype. It could play quite loud in full range mode without the membrane touching the stator. Yet, it is not perfect and I want to try some other (lot cheaper) methods to make them.

By
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Old 16th July 2007, 06:29 AM   #36
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

my reaction:















jauu
Calvin


ps: to my knowledge the afore mentioned Shackman used vertical spacers -which I find a bit awkward for a horizontally bowed ESL.
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Old 16th July 2007, 06:56 AM   #37
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Hi Calvin;

some picture missing or..........??????????????
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Old 17th July 2007, 08:22 AM   #38
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

nothing missing, just nothing to comment or add on Mike´s words in a pro or con fashion

jauu
Calvin
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