Hello!
I am generally a Tube forum poster, but now I have run across a rather down and out pair of Maggie SMGs.
The two speakers physically work, they sound nice except for the lack of bass, I have two 12-inch subs which are passive that I can use to help the Maggies with bass. as well, one of the speakers rattles when the music gets a little loud.
The back of the speaker is covered in wire (I really know very little about how ESLs work, except for the basic theory). The wire is rusting away, and gone in some places, I figure that this should be/ needs to be replaced, but I have no clue where to start.
Does anybody know how to fix this rattle? is it a common problem with ESLs?
please give me some help! I don't know where to start on Restoring these Maggies. I got an amazing deal on these, so I am willing to pour money into them in repairs!
I was thinking of building one of SY's Red Light District EL84 pp amplifiers to drive these Speakers, will it produce enough power to get a decent volume level out of the Maggies? I don't know what the power out on a RLD is
-Moose
I am generally a Tube forum poster, but now I have run across a rather down and out pair of Maggie SMGs.
The two speakers physically work, they sound nice except for the lack of bass, I have two 12-inch subs which are passive that I can use to help the Maggies with bass. as well, one of the speakers rattles when the music gets a little loud.
The back of the speaker is covered in wire (I really know very little about how ESLs work, except for the basic theory). The wire is rusting away, and gone in some places, I figure that this should be/ needs to be replaced, but I have no clue where to start.
Does anybody know how to fix this rattle? is it a common problem with ESLs?
please give me some help! I don't know where to start on Restoring these Maggies. I got an amazing deal on these, so I am willing to pour money into them in repairs!
I was thinking of building one of SY's Red Light District EL84 pp amplifiers to drive these Speakers, will it produce enough power to get a decent volume level out of the Maggies? I don't know what the power out on a RLD is
-Moose
Well Maggies are actually magnetic planars and not ESLs since they are passive and use magnets rather than electrostatic means to drive them.
The SMGs are an very musical little speaker and are fairly easy to repair, although it is time consuming. You may want to check out the Planar forum at AA. Lots of repair info there.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/bbs.html
In a nutshell, the aluminum wire that is glued to the back of the mylar diapham will need regluing or replacing. Its tedious but not too difficult. Its just a mess and time consuming. Usually, the bass wiring comes loose but doesnt get breaks in it. The tweeter wire though just disinigrates and must be replaced. Magnepan sells a tweeter repair kit with is about $40 I believe.
amt
The SMGs are an very musical little speaker and are fairly easy to repair, although it is time consuming. You may want to check out the Planar forum at AA. Lots of repair info there.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/bbs.html
In a nutshell, the aluminum wire that is glued to the back of the mylar diapham will need regluing or replacing. Its tedious but not too difficult. Its just a mess and time consuming. Usually, the bass wiring comes loose but doesnt get breaks in it. The tweeter wire though just disinigrates and must be replaced. Magnepan sells a tweeter repair kit with is about $40 I believe.
amt
This article will give you most of your answers. You will first need to remove all the staples and the socks (grills) to actually see what type of repairs are needed.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/peter_gunn/repair.html
If you check the "Tweaks" and "Articles" areas of the Planar Forum, you will learn a great deal in a short time.
amt
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/peter_gunn/repair.html
If you check the "Tweaks" and "Articles" areas of the Planar Forum, you will learn a great deal in a short time.
amt
Thanks a bunch, I am learning soo much, but there are a few things
I can't seem to figure out
1. everyone says that you can get repair kits from Magnepan.com, but I cannot find anything on their website that denotes that! could someone please send me a link? or direct me to another website. I feel kinda stupid asking this, but I can't find anything.
2. also, what does this Aluminum wire actually do? does is it really the voice coil for the speaker? because on one of the Maggies, the wire is corroded far beyond the point of electrical connection.
Thanks a lot
-Moose
I can't seem to figure out
1. everyone says that you can get repair kits from Magnepan.com, but I cannot find anything on their website that denotes that! could someone please send me a link? or direct me to another website. I feel kinda stupid asking this, but I can't find anything.
2. also, what does this Aluminum wire actually do? does is it really the voice coil for the speaker? because on one of the Maggies, the wire is corroded far beyond the point of electrical connection.
Thanks a lot
-Moose
The aluminum wires are essentially the voice coil - they are glued to the mylar diaphragm and carry the current from the amp. Magneplanars are pretty easy to repair if the wires have fried or come loose. My experience from repairing the tweeter section in my MG-IIbs many years ago:
Disassemble the speaker. In my case this meant removing the screws that held the wood frame on the perimeter of the panel, then removing the staples at the bottom that held the fabric sock that covers the panel. Carefully remove the fabric sock.
You can then check the aluminum wires that form the high and low frequency drivers - they are (or should be) glued to the speaker diaphragm. In my case the tweeter wires had an open.
Magneplanar sent me a repair kit that included a solvent to strip the old coating, contact cement, a new coating, new wire, and solder for the aluminum wire. After stripping the old wire and coating, you paint some stripes of contact cement perpendicular to the wire path. Then stretch the new wire along the channels between the magnets. The stripes of contact cement hold the new wire in place. When done placing the wire, paint over it with the new coating to secure it to the diaphragm. Let the coating dry, solder the ends of the wire into the crossover section, re-assemble, and you're done.
I had to call Magneplanar for the kit (this was in the days before the web), they were very helpful, the kit was reasonably priced and included enough materials to do both tweeters though I only needed to do one.
Tools needed: srewdrivers, pliers (to remove the staples), soldering iron, disposable paint brushes, rags, staple gun.
All told it was pretty easy and straightforward. I still regret selling those maggies.
Disassemble the speaker. In my case this meant removing the screws that held the wood frame on the perimeter of the panel, then removing the staples at the bottom that held the fabric sock that covers the panel. Carefully remove the fabric sock.
You can then check the aluminum wires that form the high and low frequency drivers - they are (or should be) glued to the speaker diaphragm. In my case the tweeter wires had an open.
Magneplanar sent me a repair kit that included a solvent to strip the old coating, contact cement, a new coating, new wire, and solder for the aluminum wire. After stripping the old wire and coating, you paint some stripes of contact cement perpendicular to the wire path. Then stretch the new wire along the channels between the magnets. The stripes of contact cement hold the new wire in place. When done placing the wire, paint over it with the new coating to secure it to the diaphragm. Let the coating dry, solder the ends of the wire into the crossover section, re-assemble, and you're done.
I had to call Magneplanar for the kit (this was in the days before the web), they were very helpful, the kit was reasonably priced and included enough materials to do both tweeters though I only needed to do one.
Tools needed: srewdrivers, pliers (to remove the staples), soldering iron, disposable paint brushes, rags, staple gun.
All told it was pretty easy and straightforward. I still regret selling those maggies.
Thanks alot Mightydub!
Thats pretty much what I thought the tweater wire did, although I do find it a little odd that they use Aluminum, as it is a pretty bad conductor.
My Maggies have no socks on them, the previous owner thought they looked better that way.
The low/mid drivers seem to be stuck pretty well to the Mylar with one exception, there is 10-15 years of gunk on the back of them (3 of those years were spent in a basement). In addition there is some brown goo (i don't know if it is old glue or what) toward the top and bottom of the bass/mid driver on both speakers. Is there a way I can clean this goo off without damaging the glue that is holding the wires on there to begin with? Or should I completly strip off all of the wires, clean the mylar, and re-glue everything?
As far as the tweater goes, one of the definatly needs to be replaced, the tweater is missing 1/3 of the wire, which causes a the tweeter to not work, and a rattle when bass is played. I am going to replace each speaker's tweater (time permiting) just for good measure. However I am not exactly sure how to do this, I have read many websites, and I understand the proceedure behind gluing, and un-gluing the wires, but I am yet to find a clear explaination of how to reshape the new wire into the shape that the tweater is supposed to be. If anybody has any idea how to do that, I would be eternally greatful.
Thanks so much mightytdub, and amt
Thats pretty much what I thought the tweater wire did, although I do find it a little odd that they use Aluminum, as it is a pretty bad conductor.
My Maggies have no socks on them, the previous owner thought they looked better that way.
The low/mid drivers seem to be stuck pretty well to the Mylar with one exception, there is 10-15 years of gunk on the back of them (3 of those years were spent in a basement). In addition there is some brown goo (i don't know if it is old glue or what) toward the top and bottom of the bass/mid driver on both speakers. Is there a way I can clean this goo off without damaging the glue that is holding the wires on there to begin with? Or should I completly strip off all of the wires, clean the mylar, and re-glue everything?
As far as the tweater goes, one of the definatly needs to be replaced, the tweater is missing 1/3 of the wire, which causes a the tweeter to not work, and a rattle when bass is played. I am going to replace each speaker's tweater (time permiting) just for good measure. However I am not exactly sure how to do this, I have read many websites, and I understand the proceedure behind gluing, and un-gluing the wires, but I am yet to find a clear explaination of how to reshape the new wire into the shape that the tweater is supposed to be. If anybody has any idea how to do that, I would be eternally greatful.
Thanks so much mightytdub, and amt
Hard to say not having seen your speakers, but I think the "gunk" is the coating that bonds the wire to the diaphragm, if I recall correctly from my own experience. The most that it might need is a gentle cleaning with a vacuum cleaner and soft brush if the wire is still well attached.
Getting the new wire in the right place is pretty easy. If you shine a flashlight through the panels, you'll see that there are strip magnets running top to bottom, and the wire on the diaphragm is in the middle of the gap between the magnets. A crude representation of a cross section of the panel:
-------*--------*--------*-------- diaphragm with wires (*) bonded to it
[[[]]]]___[[[[]]]___[[[[]]]___[[[[]]]] strip magnets on perforated panel
Assuming the old stuff is cleaned off - lay the panel down flat in a place with good lighting. Paint 5 or so stripes of the contact cement perpendicular to the path of the wire across the entire width of the tweeter section - one at the bottom of the panel, one at the top, and a few equally spaced in between Starting from the bottom, where the wire connects to the crossover, just stick the wire down into the first stripe of contact cement so that it is centered between the strip magnets, then stretch it up towards the top of the panel. Look down along the length to make sure you keep it centered in the gap between the strip magnets, then still pulling it tight, lower it down into the stripes of cement. The cement is tacky so it will hold the wire, but you can pull it back up if necessary to correct any mistakes. When you get to the end of the panel, just make a U-turn and go back the other way. If you're a perfectionist you can use the end of a pencil or something to make a nice round turn. Just go slowly and take care to make sure you get the wire placed in the centers of the gaps between the magnets - it isn't hard at all, just requires some care. 6 passes or so up and back down the panel and you're done.
The repair kit came with pretty good instructions and much better pictures than I have made.
Good luck!
Getting the new wire in the right place is pretty easy. If you shine a flashlight through the panels, you'll see that there are strip magnets running top to bottom, and the wire on the diaphragm is in the middle of the gap between the magnets. A crude representation of a cross section of the panel:
-------*--------*--------*-------- diaphragm with wires (*) bonded to it
[[[]]]]___[[[[]]]___[[[[]]]___[[[[]]]] strip magnets on perforated panel
Assuming the old stuff is cleaned off - lay the panel down flat in a place with good lighting. Paint 5 or so stripes of the contact cement perpendicular to the path of the wire across the entire width of the tweeter section - one at the bottom of the panel, one at the top, and a few equally spaced in between Starting from the bottom, where the wire connects to the crossover, just stick the wire down into the first stripe of contact cement so that it is centered between the strip magnets, then stretch it up towards the top of the panel. Look down along the length to make sure you keep it centered in the gap between the strip magnets, then still pulling it tight, lower it down into the stripes of cement. The cement is tacky so it will hold the wire, but you can pull it back up if necessary to correct any mistakes. When you get to the end of the panel, just make a U-turn and go back the other way. If you're a perfectionist you can use the end of a pencil or something to make a nice round turn. Just go slowly and take care to make sure you get the wire placed in the centers of the gaps between the magnets - it isn't hard at all, just requires some care. 6 passes or so up and back down the panel and you're done.
The repair kit came with pretty good instructions and much better pictures than I have made.
Good luck!
SY said:
Sounds like a plan!, have you measured the power output on the RLD? being el84 Push-Pull pentode, it should be close to 15-20 watts.
mightydub said:
Many have used the 3M super 77 spray glue, have you ever used this product? or have you never had a problem with the contact cement?
-Moose
I have restored four of these maggie MGAs in the past couple years. The biggest thing here is if your mylar is torn, don't even bother trying to fix them. A small tear is OK, but larger areas will not sound right at all. It will buzz like a buzzsaw.
First, read here...
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/alex.html
I did not run a current through the wires to keep them down as I used a "new" adhesive. Read on...
Small tears need to be taped with scotch tape or similar. It is important to bring those two sections of mylar as close together as possible before you tape. as you do not want any slack in the mylar. I thought I could tighten the slack on one particularly large tear with a hair dryer...well it worked, till the mylar cooled down and then the slack returned...some here would shoot anyone with such an idea...I had little to lose (these MGAs were less than $100), but didn't quite work out.
The tweeter voice coil is usually corrodes away and requires replacement. Bass wires just come loose and need to be reglued. Wipe down the old crap glue with Acetone. The old glue will come right off, and the wires will lift off the mylar....
Now what I have done would most likely have a few here in an uproar, but has worked perfectly for me...I bought a small spool of Copper 36 gauge Magnet wire to replace the tweeter coil. This is not the original replacement aluminum, and the resistance (thus impedance) will be a bit slightly different, but it worked perfectly for me since I replaced both tweeter coils. Forget the scotchguard 77 Adhesive. Never worked for me, and leave a gunk that just weighs down the diaphrapm. I used (Ahem...) Weldwood from Home Depot as an adhesive. Worked like a charm. Run the wire thu a gob of it and lay the wires along the mylar. Use very little Weldwood, as this stuff is sticky as hell, and will weigh down the diaphragm if too much is applied...I went up and down the length of the speaker using a wodden peg jig. Using Welwood adhesive, these wires will never come loose again. I used it on the bass wires too. The last thing I did was a thin brush coating of the blue stuff from magnepan (Milloxane) You need to order this from magnean and it is cheap. Milloxane is not really just for gluing, but it also will filter out UV rays which will harm the mylar... Magnepan will not send out Milloxane in the winter due to its ability to set up and not return to a liquid phase.
All in all it took the better part of a weekend to restore a pair of SMGAs, and the learning curve is not so bad.... They all sounded excellent!
I sold all four pairs and made enough money to buy a pair of MMGs and build a few gainclone amps. The MMGs have an aluminum ribbon instead of wire, and are much more diffcult to repair, but I have yet to hear anyone saying their coils have come loose on their MMG's - they use a much better glue these days... I like the MMGs a little more than the SMGAs, they sound more focused and clear...and are a bit smaller too...
Just my 2 cents boys and squirrels, again YMMV...
First, read here...
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/alex.html
I did not run a current through the wires to keep them down as I used a "new" adhesive. Read on...
Small tears need to be taped with scotch tape or similar. It is important to bring those two sections of mylar as close together as possible before you tape. as you do not want any slack in the mylar. I thought I could tighten the slack on one particularly large tear with a hair dryer...well it worked, till the mylar cooled down and then the slack returned...some here would shoot anyone with such an idea...I had little to lose (these MGAs were less than $100), but didn't quite work out.
The tweeter voice coil is usually corrodes away and requires replacement. Bass wires just come loose and need to be reglued. Wipe down the old crap glue with Acetone. The old glue will come right off, and the wires will lift off the mylar....
Now what I have done would most likely have a few here in an uproar, but has worked perfectly for me...I bought a small spool of Copper 36 gauge Magnet wire to replace the tweeter coil. This is not the original replacement aluminum, and the resistance (thus impedance) will be a bit slightly different, but it worked perfectly for me since I replaced both tweeter coils. Forget the scotchguard 77 Adhesive. Never worked for me, and leave a gunk that just weighs down the diaphrapm. I used (Ahem...) Weldwood from Home Depot as an adhesive. Worked like a charm. Run the wire thu a gob of it and lay the wires along the mylar. Use very little Weldwood, as this stuff is sticky as hell, and will weigh down the diaphragm if too much is applied...I went up and down the length of the speaker using a wodden peg jig. Using Welwood adhesive, these wires will never come loose again. I used it on the bass wires too. The last thing I did was a thin brush coating of the blue stuff from magnepan (Milloxane) You need to order this from magnean and it is cheap. Milloxane is not really just for gluing, but it also will filter out UV rays which will harm the mylar... Magnepan will not send out Milloxane in the winter due to its ability to set up and not return to a liquid phase.
All in all it took the better part of a weekend to restore a pair of SMGAs, and the learning curve is not so bad.... They all sounded excellent!
I sold all four pairs and made enough money to buy a pair of MMGs and build a few gainclone amps. The MMGs have an aluminum ribbon instead of wire, and are much more diffcult to repair, but I have yet to hear anyone saying their coils have come loose on their MMG's - they use a much better glue these days... I like the MMGs a little more than the SMGAs, they sound more focused and clear...and are a bit smaller too...
Just my 2 cents boys and squirrels, again YMMV...
hey, I got everything from Magnapan exept for the Water-based glue, is there any way I can do without it? I bought alot of both weldwood, and super 77 (in case I needed it). its too cold out to ship the water-based glue, and I haven't found a hardware store that carries the generic 3M 30NF, i'll keep looking.
I did all of the acetone stuff today
pretty strong stuff, the only problem is that the only place for the speakers to sit while the fumes die down is the gargage, which is a burning 30 degrees (farenheit) right now.
will I be okay with just the Weldwood? or it with the super 77? or do I need to wait 6 %$%^*(*&(*&(&^%R^# months before I can use my new speakers!
-Moose
I did all of the acetone stuff today
pretty strong stuff, the only problem is that the only place for the speakers to sit while the fumes die down is the gargage, which is a burning 30 degrees (farenheit) right now.will I be okay with just the Weldwood? or it with the super 77? or do I need to wait 6 %$%^*(*&(*&(&^%R^# months before I can use my new speakers!
-Moose
Google is your friend - for example,
http://www.1stchoiceindustrial.com/...l, 1 qt,&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle
or try yellow pages for a contractor tool / supply store near you.
http://www.1stchoiceindustrial.com/...l, 1 qt,&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle
or try yellow pages for a contractor tool / supply store near you.
I just repaired a pair of SMGa speakers using regular contact cement - the type that comes in a metal can with a brush attached to the lid. I tried this and Weldwood in an experiment before atacking the speakers (very similar).
Beware to get a good fresh bottle of Weldwood. The first bottle I bought had separated and was useless - it had clearly "gone off" and would not apply or work properly.
The method is similar to that described by others on the Maggie User Group website (Audio assylum...) and seems to be foolproof. The only unpleasent part is stripping the old adhesive with solvent. Luckily, only the bass wires needed any attention on my speakers, the treble sections were undamaged.
Ed
Beware to get a good fresh bottle of Weldwood. The first bottle I bought had separated and was useless - it had clearly "gone off" and would not apply or work properly.
The method is similar to that described by others on the Maggie User Group website (Audio assylum...) and seems to be foolproof. The only unpleasent part is stripping the old adhesive with solvent. Luckily, only the bass wires needed any attention on my speakers, the treble sections were undamaged.
Ed
Yes, fresh weldwood is key. I glued some wood parts together a few months back with an old can of weldwood and it still has not dried and held...
Use just enough weldwood to keep the wire onto the mylar. You don't really want to have globs of goo, but I would sweat it too much if you already have some here and there..
Use just enough weldwood to keep the wire onto the mylar. You don't really want to have globs of goo, but I would sweat it too much if you already have some here and there..
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.