Hi inertial ,
see : manger-msw.com : Products , Data-Facts , Swing
or see :www.hm-moreart.de : basstuba = Horn for Manger
Greetings from Germany
Jürgen
see : manger-msw.com : Products , Data-Facts , Swing
or see :www.hm-moreart.de : basstuba = Horn for Manger
Greetings from Germany
Jürgen
AFAIK the swing was never intended to be sold as a kit. So they don't publish details like x-over etc.
It looks very neat but it won't get the most from the MSW if you want to listen a high volumes every now and then.
The crossover is most probably a single cap and an impedance correction parallel to the MSW (like in the other Manger models) with a larger cap then the other Manger models use.
Regards
Charles
It looks very neat but it won't get the most from the MSW if you want to listen a high volumes every now and then.
The crossover is most probably a single cap and an impedance correction parallel to the MSW (like in the other Manger models) with a larger cap then the other Manger models use.
Regards
Charles
I would use the Manger >250hz in open baffle (recommended by Manger self). Below 250hz a nice woofer in sealed enclosure or also open baffle.
Reply from Manger:
Dear Jeroen,
thank you for your inquiry.
You can use it in an open baffle, but better is an baffle in
combinationwith a cabinet of 8 Liters for the MSw driver.
The MSW starts with a piston like action beyond 250 Hz and for
this is better to add a air cushion for a more controlled diaphragm
movement.
Reply from Manger:
Dear Jeroen,
thank you for your inquiry.
You can use it in an open baffle, but better is an baffle in
combinationwith a cabinet of 8 Liters for the MSw driver.
The MSW starts with a piston like action beyond 250 Hz and for
this is better to add a air cushion for a more controlled diaphragm
movement.
Hi Jeroen
I think you misunderstood Mrs Manger. She does not say that you shall definitely use it with an open baffle crossed over at > 250 Hz.
She rather says that a closed box is better than an open baffle because of the pistonic behaviour below 250 Hz.
Remember that you can't fully suppress everything below 250 Hz going to the MSW whan you cross at this frequency.
Regards
Charles
I think you misunderstood Mrs Manger. She does not say that you shall definitely use it with an open baffle crossed over at > 250 Hz.
She rather says that a closed box is better than an open baffle because of the pistonic behaviour below 250 Hz.
Remember that you can't fully suppress everything below 250 Hz going to the MSW whan you cross at this frequency.
Regards
Charles
Thanks audiotux .
Charles,
I have listened yesterday the SWING. No problem with max SPL.
It sounds!
You are correct, from the data exposed ( impedence graph) it seems a single cap high/pass but...... I am skeptical. The frequency response
seems ( to my ears) "too flat" to not have any compensation ( like
LCR or others).
But I do not have any type of measurements of the single MSW alone
in differents radiations conditions. I am very curious about to see the difference from a 2pi/str response versus a 4p/istr response ( with a baffle like the swing, to say).
I know you have the MSW, have you take some measurements ?
Many thanks.
Jeroenkv,
I am not a big fan of dipole but sure If one like dipole operation,
MSW can be a very interesting option, IMHO.
I am surprise about the not-proliferation of this MSW in the "dipole-community" !
Cheers,
Inertial
Charles,
I have listened yesterday the SWING. No problem with max SPL.
It sounds!
You are correct, from the data exposed ( impedence graph) it seems a single cap high/pass but...... I am skeptical. The frequency response
seems ( to my ears) "too flat" to not have any compensation ( like
LCR or others).
But I do not have any type of measurements of the single MSW alone
in differents radiations conditions. I am very curious about to see the difference from a 2pi/str response versus a 4p/istr response ( with a baffle like the swing, to say).
I know you have the MSW, have you take some measurements ?
Many thanks.
Jeroenkv,
I am not a big fan of dipole but sure If one like dipole operation,
MSW can be a very interesting option, IMHO.
I am surprise about the not-proliferation of this MSW in the "dipole-community" !
Cheers,
Inertial
I assume that it definitely has some impedance compensation for the driver impedance in order to work properly. But it doesn't necessarily have response compensation. Below about 300 Hz it shows a rising response with decreasing frequency due to the change from bending-wave mode to pistonic mode. This can often be used for BSC.
I haven't measured the bare driver so far but will do it this spring as soon as it is warm enough outside and I'll have a day off for doing this.
Regards
Charles
One has to watch out not to mix things up. The rise-time has nothing to do with current delivery (or better: current consumption). Current consumed is a function of impedance and driving voltage.
Rise-time is also affected by impedance (namely inductance) but other factors as well.
The Manger is almost resistive only, with a very low 16uH series inductance which is an easy load for almost any amplifier.
If you don't use an amp with high bandwith (Manger recommends > 150 kHz) you don't have any disadvantages from the fast rise-time of the MSW but you don't get all of its advantages. Simple as that.
As far as disadvantages go, there are two that I can name: Somewhat higher distortion than other drivers and two "holes" in FR at 800 Hz and 1600 Hz.
But even though there are some things that others do better I wouldn't change to anything else at the moment.
Regards
Charles
Rise-time is also affected by impedance (namely inductance) but other factors as well.
The Manger is almost resistive only, with a very low 16uH series inductance which is an easy load for almost any amplifier.
If you don't use an amp with high bandwith (Manger recommends > 150 kHz) you don't have any disadvantages from the fast rise-time of the MSW but you don't get all of its advantages. Simple as that.
As far as disadvantages go, there are two that I can name: Somewhat higher distortion than other drivers and two "holes" in FR at 800 Hz and 1600 Hz.
But even though there are some things that others do better I wouldn't change to anything else at the moment.
Regards
Charles
Hi again,
yetserday I've heard third audition with swing+subsonice.
Mmmmh, something of not perfect in the integration sub-sat.
But the 200Hz ---> up is "magic"!! Really amazing.
I have suggested to my friend to ask the little zerobox bookshelf
to the distributor, but at the moment they do not have " in-house".
I' m very curios to listen it...
Cheers,
Inertial
yetserday I've heard third audition with swing+subsonice.
Mmmmh, something of not perfect in the integration sub-sat.
But the 200Hz ---> up is "magic"!! Really amazing.
I have suggested to my friend to ask the little zerobox bookshelf
to the distributor, but at the moment they do not have " in-house".
I' m very curios to listen it...
Cheers,
Inertial
Hi, Yeroenkv.
Yes, you are right.
But from the moment that one swing plus two subsonice(manger also)
costs about 8800 euro, my friend want to try the little zerobox bookshelf ( 3400 euro).
Again I am skeptical about the very low ( 90 Hz) x-over freq suggested from Manger : my ears hear something of not correct. Just my opinion
of course.
Inertial
Yes, you are right.
But from the moment that one swing plus two subsonice(manger also)
costs about 8800 euro, my friend want to try the little zerobox bookshelf ( 3400 euro).
Again I am skeptical about the very low ( 90 Hz) x-over freq suggested from Manger : my ears hear something of not correct. Just my opinion
of course.
Inertial
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