I have seen nicely cared for Martin Logan CLS II speakers complete with all electronics go for less than $1000 and am often wondering has anyone attempted to fabricate an encloser that would make these into a Hybrid?
I used to own a pair of the original Monoliths and found that I had to stand to listen to them. It was either that or point them downward to the couch and then when I was standing, I would have the same problem....I was out of the show.
The CLS has a similar problem, so I was thinking why not buy a pair of these and make a cabinet or stand that elevated them and even throw in a small woofer cabinet down below that went to say 40 Hz and let a sub do the rest of the work. I'm thinking that would be spectacular.
I'm not at all familiar with how those hybrid fit together....anyone have any ideas how to marry a CLS with a 10" woofer cabinet?
C
I used to own a pair of the original Monoliths and found that I had to stand to listen to them. It was either that or point them downward to the couch and then when I was standing, I would have the same problem....I was out of the show.
The CLS has a similar problem, so I was thinking why not buy a pair of these and make a cabinet or stand that elevated them and even throw in a small woofer cabinet down below that went to say 40 Hz and let a sub do the rest of the work. I'm thinking that would be spectacular.
I'm not at all familiar with how those hybrid fit together....anyone have any ideas how to marry a CLS with a 10" woofer cabinet?
C
Hi Clarkcr,
why to change this excellent fullrange ESL into an hybrid ? It is questionable if the hybrid will produce a "better" bass response, since two different systems will interact at certain frequency. If you want to change it, you should add a dipol-woofer system and not a woofer in an enclosure. To combine different radiations (ESL=dipol, woofer in enclosure=monopol) isn't an easy job to do.
Since the CLS has a resonable width, your stand will have it as well. The larger the width the lower the frequency when phase cancellation starts. I think you could make your stand like an open baffle over the entire width of the CLS and mount 3 x10" dipol-woofers. You might find a lot of posts regarding dipol -woofers and corresponding frequency networks.
But i doubt if you can play much louder as without the woofers,since the pressure wave of the woofers will push the mebran into the stators at a certain level. The CLS is a fullrange with a low resonance frequency of the membran. This requires a low compliance of the membran, which is sensitive to additional pressure load of the woofers.
This can be improved by adding a certain air gap (about 1" height) between the top of the woofer baffle and the CLS bottom.
It might take a long way of testing, listening and modifications until you reach a point where the "new" hybrid really sound better than the CLS without the woofers.
If you can get a CLS for1000 USD buy it, it is an amazing ESL and, in my opinion one of the best "fullrangers".
Capaciti
why to change this excellent fullrange ESL into an hybrid ? It is questionable if the hybrid will produce a "better" bass response, since two different systems will interact at certain frequency. If you want to change it, you should add a dipol-woofer system and not a woofer in an enclosure. To combine different radiations (ESL=dipol, woofer in enclosure=monopol) isn't an easy job to do.
Since the CLS has a resonable width, your stand will have it as well. The larger the width the lower the frequency when phase cancellation starts. I think you could make your stand like an open baffle over the entire width of the CLS and mount 3 x10" dipol-woofers. You might find a lot of posts regarding dipol -woofers and corresponding frequency networks.
But i doubt if you can play much louder as without the woofers,since the pressure wave of the woofers will push the mebran into the stators at a certain level. The CLS is a fullrange with a low resonance frequency of the membran. This requires a low compliance of the membran, which is sensitive to additional pressure load of the woofers.
This can be improved by adding a certain air gap (about 1" height) between the top of the woofer baffle and the CLS bottom.
It might take a long way of testing, listening and modifications until you reach a point where the "new" hybrid really sound better than the CLS without the woofers.
If you can get a CLS for1000 USD buy it, it is an amazing ESL and, in my opinion one of the best "fullrangers".
Capaciti
The CLS has been discontinued by ML awhile ago
Along with the orginal Statement. I wondering if they concluded that the width created two many problems since all of theirs now have shrunk in width considerably. The new statement is narrow also.
I remember the first time I saw these and was ready to buy them almost without listening.
After getting over the gorgeous looks, the sound was too iritating and uneven in balance. It really was a letdown. I tried another store at the time to rule out the setup.
I have original Quads (2 pair) Not stacked BTW
There has to be a problem with a curved panel this wide or why would they abandon them.
What do you guys think?
David
Along with the orginal Statement. I wondering if they concluded that the width created two many problems since all of theirs now have shrunk in width considerably. The new statement is narrow also.
I remember the first time I saw these and was ready to buy them almost without listening.
After getting over the gorgeous looks, the sound was too iritating and uneven in balance. It really was a letdown. I tried another store at the time to rule out the setup.
I have original Quads (2 pair) Not stacked BTW
There has to be a problem with a curved panel this wide or why would they abandon them.
What do you guys think?
David
I didn't mean to see that it would improve the bass response. I realize that.....I'm talking about sound quality, imaging, all of that. The problem I forsee with the CLS is that they are shorter than I am and thus, when I'm standing, I am well out of the sound. To make them a hyrid would elevate them 18 inchs off the floor....where sound is wasted...at me kneecaps....and better utilize the 44 inches of line source sound.
C
C
A pair of CLS's just went for 612$ on fleebay in my neck of the woods (Orange County) A very good deal since I just paid 1080$ off Ebay for some SL3's 3 weeks ago.
You might try building a woofer column seperate from the CLS with the ability to time align the setup for more accurate time response along with the detatched resonances that will not be appreciated by the super light panel. Realize that the solid oak frame has a high Q that MDF doesn't have. They would have gone farther and produced a better product by going with a painted mdf frame.
The SL3's have the 10" woofer too far back, which creates a panel first/woofer second time domain error. A stereophile review
showed it quite clearly. The speaker sounds quite good but has zero midbass quality and no low bass. ( PSE studio IV and Krell 150 watt mono's) The Sl3's need a better constructed MDF frame and woofer cabinet with possibly a different woofer to blend with the excellent panel. For the 3200$ clams they were selling this for, the box and frame were seriously resonant with 2 small angled braces and the woofer sharing the electronics in the same volume. Give me a break... ML didn't spend alot of time reducing resonant vibrations in their cabinets but got a free lunch with excellent mylar technology.
What I'm suggesting with your CLS is what I might do to my SL3's
Seperate woofer column's with dedicated amps and a higher adjustable crossover. (didn't the CLS have a 140hz panel res? or thereabouts?) SL3's are 250hz to it's woofer. Although the CLS has no crossover, you might just benefit with reduced load and any panel drumming at it's resonant point by placing it just above.
Trash that solid oak for some dead double or triple layer MDF to help quench any and all panel resonants the metal stator's might contribute (if any) The oak frame must have a serious resonate from the touch I was feeling when playing.
Electrostat's are known for their light and fast impulse response. You might as well do everything possible to bring the other end up to their level.
David
You might try building a woofer column seperate from the CLS with the ability to time align the setup for more accurate time response along with the detatched resonances that will not be appreciated by the super light panel. Realize that the solid oak frame has a high Q that MDF doesn't have. They would have gone farther and produced a better product by going with a painted mdf frame.
The SL3's have the 10" woofer too far back, which creates a panel first/woofer second time domain error. A stereophile review
showed it quite clearly. The speaker sounds quite good but has zero midbass quality and no low bass. ( PSE studio IV and Krell 150 watt mono's) The Sl3's need a better constructed MDF frame and woofer cabinet with possibly a different woofer to blend with the excellent panel. For the 3200$ clams they were selling this for, the box and frame were seriously resonant with 2 small angled braces and the woofer sharing the electronics in the same volume. Give me a break... ML didn't spend alot of time reducing resonant vibrations in their cabinets but got a free lunch with excellent mylar technology.
What I'm suggesting with your CLS is what I might do to my SL3's
Seperate woofer column's with dedicated amps and a higher adjustable crossover. (didn't the CLS have a 140hz panel res? or thereabouts?) SL3's are 250hz to it's woofer. Although the CLS has no crossover, you might just benefit with reduced load and any panel drumming at it's resonant point by placing it just above.
Trash that solid oak for some dead double or triple layer MDF to help quench any and all panel resonants the metal stator's might contribute (if any) The oak frame must have a serious resonate from the touch I was feeling when playing.
Electrostat's are known for their light and fast impulse response. You might as well do everything possible to bring the other end up to their level.
David
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