Hi,
I have a pair of final 0.3 ELS which I love the sound of but I have a problem which i need advice on.
yesterday one of my bass units stopped working and when I tested the diaphragm it was locked solid and would not move. Also I find that the Els panel for that speaker works without being powered by the mains, which I find very interesting since the other panel needs mains power to fire up. I know nothing about the intrinsics of ELS and can only assume that maybe the x/over is faulty as well.
Does anyone know of a good replacement pair of bass drivers for these speakers and why one of my ELS panels doesn't require mains power?
Any help would be appreciated.
Darren
P.S I should have posted here in the first place.
I have a pair of final 0.3 ELS which I love the sound of but I have a problem which i need advice on.
yesterday one of my bass units stopped working and when I tested the diaphragm it was locked solid and would not move. Also I find that the Els panel for that speaker works without being powered by the mains, which I find very interesting since the other panel needs mains power to fire up. I know nothing about the intrinsics of ELS and can only assume that maybe the x/over is faulty as well.
Does anyone know of a good replacement pair of bass drivers for these speakers and why one of my ELS panels doesn't require mains power?
Any help would be appreciated.
Darren
P.S I should have posted here in the first place.
The Peerless 833429 works very well here. Its parameters suit the cabinet volume/port tuning and it sounds good, though possibly no better than the original unit. We were not happy with the Final 0.3 in stock form, so we adjusted the cross-over, before fitting the Peerless unit, to elliminate some upper bass suck-out. In short, if you use a different drive unit it may be necessary to adjust the crossover to suit the new drive unit's impedance characteristics. Another 'variable' is the new drive unit's sensitivity which may differ from that of the original, though in this respect the Peerless seems a pretty close match - perhaps a little more sensitive. Unfortunately there seems to be little available data on the original unit, perhaps Final can oblige.
N.B. Panel sensitivity can also be adjusted (prudence suggests downwards only) via a change in the power supply voltage, if needed.
Your panel will not work without charge from the supply. Dust attraction into the panels causes charge leakage resulting in more rapid discharge and corresponding loss of volume after disconnection of the power supply. Perhaps one of your panels has more dust than the other, a clean panel should retain its charge for many minutes after power down, its volume hardly changed after 5 minutes or so.
I have an almost unused original pair of Final 0.3 bass drive units. If you would like these I expect we could arrange something.
Tim.
N.B. Panel sensitivity can also be adjusted (prudence suggests downwards only) via a change in the power supply voltage, if needed.
Your panel will not work without charge from the supply. Dust attraction into the panels causes charge leakage resulting in more rapid discharge and corresponding loss of volume after disconnection of the power supply. Perhaps one of your panels has more dust than the other, a clean panel should retain its charge for many minutes after power down, its volume hardly changed after 5 minutes or so.
I have an almost unused original pair of Final 0.3 bass drive units. If you would like these I expect we could arrange something.
Tim.
Hi Tim,
I am interested in your used final bass drivers. Can you please let me know how much you would sell them for and how much freight is involved.
After your post I checked the energy retention of my panels and found your statement to be correct about them holding energy for some time.
I would be interested to know how you modified your crossover for better performance and if the modification required an electrical technician.
Thanks for your reply,
Darren.
I am interested in your used final bass drivers. Can you please let me know how much you would sell them for and how much freight is involved.
After your post I checked the energy retention of my panels and found your statement to be correct about them holding energy for some time.
I would be interested to know how you modified your crossover for better performance and if the modification required an electrical technician.
Thanks for your reply,
Darren.
Darren,
For some details on my changes to the cross-over please see
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46477&highlight=
I will be in touch via your email facility regarding the bass drive units.
Tim.
For some details on my changes to the cross-over please see
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46477&highlight=
I will be in touch via your email facility regarding the bass drive units.
Tim.
Hey Tim,
I modified my crossovers with solen capacitors in series. 1x 20uf and 1x15 uf which replace the original 33uf capacitors, and i also switched around the 220uf capacitors and resistors as you have done.
Can you tell me by doing this will there be an overlapping of frequencies in the spectrum. I have no idea.
I found the panels to be not so bright after the modifications and generally just a lttle more naural sounding.
Does this sound like the effect you got?
Yours sincerely
Darren.
I modified my crossovers with solen capacitors in series. 1x 20uf and 1x15 uf which replace the original 33uf capacitors, and i also switched around the 220uf capacitors and resistors as you have done.
Can you tell me by doing this will there be an overlapping of frequencies in the spectrum. I have no idea.
I found the panels to be not so bright after the modifications and generally just a lttle more naural sounding.
Does this sound like the effect you got?
Yours sincerely
Darren.
Darren,
Firstly, in order to arrive at 35uF you should connect your 20uF and 15uF capacitors in parallel, NOT in series. The 220uF capacitor was changed initially to 35uF but eventually we found this to be a little low, resulting in too much lower midrange information going to the bass drive unit, 70uF has since proved spot on with our Peerless drive unit though the results will probably vary with different bass drive units.
If you have made the same changes that I did the bass unit will be rolling off higher than previously, and if your speakers had the same problem as ours this will fill the dip in the response between around 200-600Hz that previously made them sound thin and tiring.
Tim.
Firstly, in order to arrive at 35uF you should connect your 20uF and 15uF capacitors in parallel, NOT in series. The 220uF capacitor was changed initially to 35uF but eventually we found this to be a little low, resulting in too much lower midrange information going to the bass drive unit, 70uF has since proved spot on with our Peerless drive unit though the results will probably vary with different bass drive units.
If you have made the same changes that I did the bass unit will be rolling off higher than previously, and if your speakers had the same problem as ours this will fill the dip in the response between around 200-600Hz that previously made them sound thin and tiring.
Tim.
Hi Tim,
Basically I have one capacitor sitting on top of the other with the wires at each end soldered together. Does this sound right? I may be misusing terminology.
I might just replace the 33uf back to the 220 uf I think and put the resistor back also.
Considering that the panel capacitor in mine is a 33uf will my crossover frequency change being that I have changed it to 35 uf?
Thanks Darren.
Basically I have one capacitor sitting on top of the other with the wires at each end soldered together. Does this sound right? I may be misusing terminology.
I might just replace the 33uf back to the 220 uf I think and put the resistor back also.
Considering that the panel capacitor in mine is a 33uf will my crossover frequency change being that I have changed it to 35 uf?
Thanks Darren.
Hi Tim,
Wondering if I can draw on your experience again.
One of my panels has less output than the other by a considerable margin and sounds dull and lifeless. I have tried swapping the panels around onto oposite woofer units to rule out the xovers which proved to me that its is not the xovers as the offending panel still sounded dull and lifeless.
Have you had any experience with this happening to electrostats?
I have been racking my brains and have not found a solution as yet.
I would appreciate any ideas you might have.
The only changes I have made recently are the solens that I spoke to you about, and recently I replaced the 1 uf cap with an Auricap same value and also replaced the 10 ohm resistor with a metal oxide resistor 10 watt/10 ohm.
I have also tried changing everything back to default caps and resistors but to no avail.
Yours sincerely,
Darren.
Wondering if I can draw on your experience again.
One of my panels has less output than the other by a considerable margin and sounds dull and lifeless. I have tried swapping the panels around onto oposite woofer units to rule out the xovers which proved to me that its is not the xovers as the offending panel still sounded dull and lifeless.
Have you had any experience with this happening to electrostats?
I have been racking my brains and have not found a solution as yet.
I would appreciate any ideas you might have.
The only changes I have made recently are the solens that I spoke to you about, and recently I replaced the 1 uf cap with an Auricap same value and also replaced the 10 ohm resistor with a metal oxide resistor 10 watt/10 ohm.
I have also tried changing everything back to default caps and resistors but to no avail.
Yours sincerely,
Darren.
Darren,
The diaphragm needs to be fully charged for full sensitivity. A low charge, for whatever reason, will result in low output.
The high voltage supply to the offending diaphragm may be faulty, or it could be O.K. but may be unable to supply enough current to the diaphargm in order to keep up with charge lost from the diaphragm due to leakage through dust build-up. I suggest a thorough discharge (unplug and wait 24hrs) followed by a good vacuum clean, particularly around the back in those not so easy to reach parts! We recently incorporated a transparent mylar dust-cover (a la Quad) on the rear of ours so that vacuuming would be necessary on the front only - this makes proper cleaning much easier.
Tim.
The diaphragm needs to be fully charged for full sensitivity. A low charge, for whatever reason, will result in low output.
The high voltage supply to the offending diaphragm may be faulty, or it could be O.K. but may be unable to supply enough current to the diaphargm in order to keep up with charge lost from the diaphragm due to leakage through dust build-up. I suggest a thorough discharge (unplug and wait 24hrs) followed by a good vacuum clean, particularly around the back in those not so easy to reach parts! We recently incorporated a transparent mylar dust-cover (a la Quad) on the rear of ours so that vacuuming would be necessary on the front only - this makes proper cleaning much easier.
Tim.
Final 0.3 crossover issues
I know this discussion was some time ago, but if any of you Final 0.3 modders are still interested/ still have the speakers, I'd like to know where you ended up with your mods.
If you look at another current thread you'll see my problem is too much bass output. However, having tamed that (albeit crudely) I am beginning to perceive the upper-bass thinness that previous posters have discussed. This thinness comes with a slight phasey or clangy character on some recordings, especially of soprano voices and hf transients, e.g. from piano. Now it could be that as this is not always present, my Finals are simply revealing things as they are. Have any of you experienced this?
Tim
I know this discussion was some time ago, but if any of you Final 0.3 modders are still interested/ still have the speakers, I'd like to know where you ended up with your mods.
If you look at another current thread you'll see my problem is too much bass output. However, having tamed that (albeit crudely) I am beginning to perceive the upper-bass thinness that previous posters have discussed. This thinness comes with a slight phasey or clangy character on some recordings, especially of soprano voices and hf transients, e.g. from piano. Now it could be that as this is not always present, my Finals are simply revealing things as they are. Have any of you experienced this?
Tim
Tim,
Well, nothing more has been done at this end since earlier.
As a pianist myself I find the Finals a difficult listen (I much prefer Quads) and even with the mods outlined earlier I agree with your description, particularly ''phasey or clangy'' which is spot on, in my opinion. However, the 0.3s to which I made the circuit changes belong to my piano tuner....who likes them!
Tim.
Well, nothing more has been done at this end since earlier.
As a pianist myself I find the Finals a difficult listen (I much prefer Quads) and even with the mods outlined earlier I agree with your description, particularly ''phasey or clangy'' which is spot on, in my opinion. However, the 0.3s to which I made the circuit changes belong to my piano tuner....who likes them!
Tim.
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