I have been looking at constructing ESLs for some time,
( Electrostatic pannel speakers )
went trhough almost everything available on the internet,
read a few books notably Roger Sanders ESL coockbook!
I have now gathered almost everything required to build a test ESL ( some electronics will serve for final project too )
And before i invest any more time into this expensive project,
i want to consult you guys that have the experience and knowlede i do not posess.
Are small ESL worth the trouble for monitor type loudspeaker?
( small = 30cm by 60-80 cm high )
Here is my specs :
driven by = computer to Bryston 2B ( soon 4B ) to speakers
room = 10 by 16 8' ceiling untreated for now
usage= music ( cd and others ) movies ( hdtv, dvds) and games
wanted to position the speakers at 1meter distance from listening position, approx 1 meter distance from each other
thus minimizing early relfection times VS direct sound
( will need room treatment neway .. building a rear diffuser soon)
point is, i am always alone listening to those, and i don't want to use headphones all the time.
the proximity of the speakers will help me on SPL achievements
back onto esl,
from what i understand, plannar speaker is the best way to achieve quality in sound in a reasonnable size for mids and highs
i guess that they do not suffer from crossover in between mids and highs, source is bigger in area ...
would you guys even consider using a small ESL for monitor kinda setup ?
the only other thing i would consider would be a small array of less than 1 meter high for now ..would be way easier to build
and alot cheaper
( good ESL transfos will cost me 400$USD + for the pair )
neway ..i'd like to have your thoughts about this project
it also includes a sub enclosure, either TL type of dipole,
not too sure about what to do in that domain
should be able to cover all the lower range ( maybe 4-500hz down)
was also considering adding wings to the small ESL to help with baffle problems
( Electrostatic pannel speakers )
went trhough almost everything available on the internet,
read a few books notably Roger Sanders ESL coockbook!
I have now gathered almost everything required to build a test ESL ( some electronics will serve for final project too )
And before i invest any more time into this expensive project,
i want to consult you guys that have the experience and knowlede i do not posess.
Are small ESL worth the trouble for monitor type loudspeaker?
( small = 30cm by 60-80 cm high )
Here is my specs :
driven by = computer to Bryston 2B ( soon 4B ) to speakers
room = 10 by 16 8' ceiling untreated for now
usage= music ( cd and others ) movies ( hdtv, dvds) and games
wanted to position the speakers at 1meter distance from listening position, approx 1 meter distance from each other
thus minimizing early relfection times VS direct sound
( will need room treatment neway .. building a rear diffuser soon)
point is, i am always alone listening to those, and i don't want to use headphones all the time.
the proximity of the speakers will help me on SPL achievements
back onto esl,
from what i understand, plannar speaker is the best way to achieve quality in sound in a reasonnable size for mids and highs
i guess that they do not suffer from crossover in between mids and highs, source is bigger in area ...
would you guys even consider using a small ESL for monitor kinda setup ?
the only other thing i would consider would be a small array of less than 1 meter high for now ..would be way easier to build
and alot cheaper
( good ESL transfos will cost me 400$USD + for the pair )
neway ..i'd like to have your thoughts about this project
it also includes a sub enclosure, either TL type of dipole,
not too sure about what to do in that domain
should be able to cover all the lower range ( maybe 4-500hz down)
was also considering adding wings to the small ESL to help with baffle problems
First off, do you really think that people just sit around waiting
for you to post a question so that they can all jump on
their keyboards to provide an answer?
As to your question, a small ESL will likely be little
more than a tweeter. I don't think you'll get much more
than that out of them.
If you want planar and you want small and mostly computer
use, I'd suggest starting with the cute little magnetic planar
plus subwoofer computer speakers from Monsoon. I have
two sets of MM-1000 systems. Very nice for the $150/pr
they cost, though the electronics is somewhat on the noisy
side (can't hear above my computer, though).
The Monsoons are the best computer speakers I've heard
for anywhere near their price.
The downside is that the company seems to have gone under.
Check ebay.
for you to post a question so that they can all jump on
their keyboards to provide an answer?
As to your question, a small ESL will likely be little
more than a tweeter. I don't think you'll get much more
than that out of them.
If you want planar and you want small and mostly computer
use, I'd suggest starting with the cute little magnetic planar
plus subwoofer computer speakers from Monsoon. I have
two sets of MM-1000 systems. Very nice for the $150/pr
they cost, though the electronics is somewhat on the noisy
side (can't hear above my computer, though).
The Monsoons are the best computer speakers I've heard
for anywhere near their price.
The downside is that the company seems to have gone under.
Check ebay.
BrianL said:
ahahaha
and what DO YOU THINK ??
trying to convince me that i should buy your "computer" speakers??
wtf? i have been using bryston amp with Mirage OM speakers
( 2000$ ) + BPS bipolar 8" powered sub for some time,
do you really think that i would be going back to cheap
computer speakers?
and by the way, i'm pretty sure that my computer output is better in audio quality than almost any sub 1000$ cd/dvd readers ..
computer speakers
there are some nice at Costco for sub 150$CAD
Stocker: ahahha you are right buddy, maybe i'm just trying to justify to myself the involved time spent
I suspect that there are not that many people here that know THAT much about electrostat construction- although one of your respondants does, I happen to know
So, if you don't get anyone that can help you or is interested in helping you, you will just have to try again later I guess.
Sometimes people are busy, or building an amp or God forbid -working!! As someone pointed out- no one is under any obligation to answer your queries..
So, if you don't get anyone that can help you or is interested in helping you, you will just have to try again later I guess.
Sometimes people are busy, or building an amp or God forbid -working!! As someone pointed out- no one is under any obligation to answer your queries..
ohh, they are
Missed your post in the first place.
I build a couple of full ranges a while ago.
They do realy sound sweet ! The low frequencies are a trouble.
You proposed to have panels of 30x80 cm.
There is a width over length factor to achieve the best results.
And as i can remember it is 1:7 to 1:8.
A panel of 80 cm does not have to be 30 cm wide. 10cm Is mor likely !
you can e-mail me for more info/questions if you like !
grtz
Simon
Missed your post in the first place.
I build a couple of full ranges a while ago.
They do realy sound sweet ! The low frequencies are a trouble.
You proposed to have panels of 30x80 cm.
There is a width over length factor to achieve the best results.
And as i can remember it is 1:7 to 1:8.
A panel of 80 cm does not have to be 30 cm wide. 10cm Is mor likely !
you can e-mail me for more info/questions if you like !
grtz
Simon
Re: ohh, they are
well i don't see why there would be a factor to keep at
just look at the almost perfect square 1950-60s ESLs ..
i think that people construct high ESL just for the convenience VS performance ..
it would be pretty crazy to build an ESL that is 8 feet high and 8 feet wide
my point wiht 30cm + wings is to push the dipole effects as far down as possible on the hz scale
10cm will definitly have to get corrected alot under 1KHz
i think ..and i do not wish to correct that much of it!
the lower end will be assured by a multiple driver sub setup
no problems here for me!
what kind of transformers u used?
polirazing voltage VS D/S ratio ?
i am trying to design a tensionned wire type right now..
might go that route, but with a completly different style from what others did !
for the transfos i've been looking at the ESL transfors from plitron
blu_line said:
well i don't see why there would be a factor to keep at
just look at the almost perfect square 1950-60s ESLs ..
i think that people construct high ESL just for the convenience VS performance ..
it would be pretty crazy to build an ESL that is 8 feet high and 8 feet wide
my point wiht 30cm + wings is to push the dipole effects as far down as possible on the hz scale
10cm will definitly have to get corrected alot under 1KHz
i think ..and i do not wish to correct that much of it!
the lower end will be assured by a multiple driver sub setup
no problems here for me!
what kind of transformers u used?
polirazing voltage VS D/S ratio ?
i am trying to design a tensionned wire type right now..
might go that route, but with a completly different style from what others did !
for the transfos i've been looking at the ESL transfors from plitron
Hi,
Seeing I'm currently using various speaker technologies including Bass Reflex (Proac 2.5 clone & Fostex 206E in 20L cabinet); Infinite Baffle (expensive Yamaha NS1200 Monitors); Open Baffle experiments with Fostex & Raven ribbons; and Electrostatic speakers ( see the Mackinlay ESL-3 a kit spkr at www.eraudio.com.au ) .
I would recommend to any beginner that in order to get instant gratification - go for the Fostex 206E ($84USD ea A Madisound) in a 20L BR box ! You get elctrostatic-like sound without the cost, hassles of construction or size limitations. Also, the Fostex is a crossoverless point source driver that requires no tuning or tweaking for the beginner. You will need to sort out the bass later, which in my case is currently TL subs or a pair of 150L BR boxes with the superb Eton 11" hexacomb driver.
I have to say though that of the speaker technologies mentioned above, my favourite is the electrostatic Mackinlay ESL-3. It has lightning fast transients and leaves the others behind for sheer detail retrieval ... it's not perfect either, but to my ears and taste in music the best I've heard!
Just my two cents worth...
Regards,
Steve M.
Seeing I'm currently using various speaker technologies including Bass Reflex (Proac 2.5 clone & Fostex 206E in 20L cabinet); Infinite Baffle (expensive Yamaha NS1200 Monitors); Open Baffle experiments with Fostex & Raven ribbons; and Electrostatic speakers ( see the Mackinlay ESL-3 a kit spkr at www.eraudio.com.au ) .
I would recommend to any beginner that in order to get instant gratification - go for the Fostex 206E ($84USD ea A Madisound) in a 20L BR box ! You get elctrostatic-like sound without the cost, hassles of construction or size limitations. Also, the Fostex is a crossoverless point source driver that requires no tuning or tweaking for the beginner. You will need to sort out the bass later, which in my case is currently TL subs or a pair of 150L BR boxes with the superb Eton 11" hexacomb driver.
I have to say though that of the speaker technologies mentioned above, my favourite is the electrostatic Mackinlay ESL-3. It has lightning fast transients and leaves the others behind for sheer detail retrieval ... it's not perfect either, but to my ears and taste in music the best I've heard!
Just my two cents worth...
Regards,
Steve M.
Attachments
I used transformers from Final 1.03.
http://www.final.nl/
They sold left overs on a Elektor/Audio Event a couple of years a go.
I think, it has been a while, i used about 2mm, since i wanted a full-range.
Thats is what i have done. Took a lot of time to tension each wire.
I wanted to segment the stator and used a aluminium u-profile, with holes drilled in it at every 4-5 mm, to quide the wires.
Unfortunenatly the profile cut into to isolation and gone was the segmentation.
Take good care of the wire spacing, since this will influence your output tremendously.
grtz
Simon
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