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Curved Electrostatic Speaker V2 Build
Curved Electrostatic Speaker V2 Build
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:22 PM   #1
DriedChalk is offline DriedChalk  United States
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Curved Electrostatic Speaker V2 Build

Hello!
After a break I'm back and ready to spend some more money .

My first attempt at a curved electrostat pair was a mostly successful, but they definitely could have been made/designed better. (Thread: Curved Electrostatic Speaker Build)

I'll be building a new pair of speakers with a few key changes:
-Thinner mylar (6 micron from 12 micron)
-Taller panels (12"x36" from 12"x24")
-More open area on steel panels (64% from 40%, see attached pic)
-Built in woofers and crossovers (NOT just a subwoofer taken from a sound-bar)
-Clear spars (purely cosmetic, but a big improvement Amazon.com: KOOL TAK Clear Foam Roll Tape, 3/16-Inch by 1/16-Inch by 1.6-Yard: Arts, Crafts & Sewing)
-Powder coated panels (spray paint was a real hassle and failed in some places)

More pictures and updates to come!

-Ben
Attached Images
File Type: png ESL STEEL PERFORATED SHEET-01.png (96.8 KB, 436 views)
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:47 PM   #2
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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"More open area on steel panels (64% from 40%, see attached pic"
Hi....
Martin logan wonted more open mylar in there panels also...but going with biger holds, lowerd output!
They had to go with smaller holes...this gave higher output an more open Mylar..all there new panels have more smaller holes...This setup gave them same output out of a 12"x 46..panels....There were getting out of the biger holds in the 16"x 46 ...they done lot of panel work
just saying....keep up the good work

Last edited by tyu; 9th February 2018 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 9th February 2018, 03:38 PM   #3
DriedChalk is offline DriedChalk  United States
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Thanks for that info tyu.
Does anyone know exactly how much my output could potentially decrease? My current panels get plenty loud and since these will be even bigger I doubt that they will be quiet, but just in case.

-Ben
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Old 9th February 2018, 03:53 PM   #4
CharlieM is offline CharlieM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriedChalk View Post
Thanks for that info tyu.
Does anyone know exactly how much my output could potentially decrease? My current panels get plenty loud and since these will be even bigger I doubt that they will be quiet, but just in case.

-Ben
I've built perf panels with open areas from 40% to 63% and I find the lower percentage open area ones just sound better. The higher open area ones were a bit harsh and also I think the lower open area stators help dampen the diaphragm's drum head resonance. Many builders add some acoustic resistance in the form of scrim cloth behind the rear stator for dampening-- perhaps it's better to go lower open area on the stators instead and use the extra metal to drive the diaphragm. Just my thoughts....
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Old 9th February 2018, 05:03 PM   #5
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Originally Posted by CharlieM View Post
I've built perf panels with open areas from 40% to 63% and I find the lower percentage open area ones just sound better. The higher open area ones were a bit harsh and also I think the lower open area stators help dampen the diaphragm's drum head resonance. Many builders add some acoustic resistance in the form of scrim cloth behind the rear stator for dampening-- perhaps it's better to go lower open area on the stators instead and use the extra metal to drive the diaphragm. Just my thoughts....
This is What ML found..they got to use only one stip of the clear rubber for stator on front an back....an small holes help dampen panels...an the smaller holes gave more output from same input...win-win.

I have nothing to do with ML...
I well an have payed for there speaker with dead panels.....an re-work them back to life..
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:10 PM   #6
DriedChalk is offline DriedChalk  United States
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I'll definitely go for the 40% open area then. I've got to wondering though, has anyone ever experimented with vertical or horizontal slats instead of holes in the steel stators?
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:54 PM   #7
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Heres the thing.....I have read the Acoustat panels are only 25% open..
40% seems like a great thing....I read also the the older biger holes ML were 50% open....

I have pr of Re-worket ML CLS....22"wide..48" tall....that would be the 50% open, curved panels...I run full rang but theres nothing there below 50-60 hz...be for over lode.... I get great output out of these panels,with just a transfourmer an a one ohm res.....get as good if not better than new CLS panels... with the ML crossover, tone shaping setup I have been told by other owners of the Stock CLS llz an CLXs
An if you pic the ML CLs up off the floor 6-8"...OMG...35 watt tube amp well run you out of a 18'X40" room...make big diff in output...Wow..shocking..well to me....I am posting this info just to help you..see were you may go....good luck ..have fun
Some pix...tuff to get good pix close up
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Nov20_2002_01%2031[1].jpg (47.4 KB, 380 views)
File Type: jpg Nov20_2002_01%2020[1].jpg (36.1 KB, 375 views)
File Type: jpg 00I0I_1iMhJHYig48_600x450[1].jpg (14.4 KB, 381 views)

Last edited by tyu; 10th February 2018 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 11th February 2018, 02:20 AM   #8
CharlieM is offline CharlieM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyu View Post
Heres the thing.....I have read the Acoustat panels are only 25% open..
40% seems like a great thing....I read also the the older biger holes ML were 50% open....
I recall reading somewhere that Panasonic Corporation did some research into ESLs which determined the optimal (max output) open area is 42%.
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Old 11th February 2018, 11:47 AM   #9
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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My problem with the newer ML small hole panels sound...I don't like there sound,of the way there new, well was new... type air frame works... the image is to large for me....an it makes it hard for me to get past that... to focus on the output...or sound quality....

"MartinLogan's MicroPerf design optimizes this tradeoff by reducing the size of the individual holes and using many more of them than in a traditional electrostatic panel. MicroPerf almost doubles effective diaphragm radiating area without compromising structural integrity. The resulting increase in output capability and efficiency allows a panel to be made much smaller without sacrificing performance - or to enjoy a substantial leap in bandwidth and dynamics without growing larger."

All this is why for years now...I have been asking...why not do what Quad dose...From the 57 on...put a so called mylar dust cover on the out side of the panel....so the ear hear the flat full sheat of mylar playing sound...not the holds in the panels with the sound....this would fits the ear so much better....
I think it what give Quad there clame to fame...an other things...

But it ezey for me to say these things...I don't diy ESL panels...I only re-work them...

Last edited by tyu; 11th February 2018 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 11th February 2018, 04:14 PM   #10
AVWERK is offline AVWERK  United States
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The only way the Quad dust cover could contribute anything to the sound is if it were stretched tight enough to act as a passive radiator for the low end, but in this case it is just tight enough to remove wrinkles and do its job.

Regards
David
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