I have some Audio Static ES3000 which one of the panels needs a new diaphragm.
There is an RC filter on the stator side and a capacitor diode voltage doubler network on the diaphragm side. I have included pictures for reference.
This is where I throw the proverbial subjective hand grenade into the mix and retreat to a safe distance.
Can you really hear differences in the components making up the filter and voltage doubler in an electrostatic speaker?
If I put ultra-fast diodes in the ladder or replace the MKS caps with MKT silvercaps or the wire wound resistors with none inductive film type would there be a noticeable difference?
There is an RC filter on the stator side and a capacitor diode voltage doubler network on the diaphragm side. I have included pictures for reference.
This is where I throw the proverbial subjective hand grenade into the mix and retreat to a safe distance.
Can you really hear differences in the components making up the filter and voltage doubler in an electrostatic speaker?
If I put ultra-fast diodes in the ladder or replace the MKS caps with MKT silvercaps or the wire wound resistors with none inductive film type would there be a noticeable difference?
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It will for sure sound different but will it sound better,
that you have to test it out. I muck around with lots
of caps & even having the best does not equal good
sound. It really depends on where it is applied too.
If your game to test I'll recommend that you go for
K73/16. Besides sounding pretty good it will not break
the bank if it does not work well in your application.
I'm also going to build a new crossover for my ML Odyssey
to try out using said caps
that you have to test it out. I muck around with lots
of caps & even having the best does not equal good
sound. It really depends on where it is applied too.
If your game to test I'll recommend that you go for
K73/16. Besides sounding pretty good it will not break
the bank if it does not work well in your application.
I'm also going to build a new crossover for my ML Odyssey
to try out using said caps
Thanks Sumotan,
I have tried these capacitors in valve amps with good and bad results. You’re right, expensive does not mean good.
In an ELS the diaphragm is not physically connected to the signal like in a dynamic system but moves within an induced field. The question was really do different components control the field better than others and are there sonic differences?
You could argue that the components are imposing a signature whilst controlling the electrostatic field but the variables are too many to ascertain whether it’s down to one component.... or is it.
A question directed to my peers.
I have tried these capacitors in valve amps with good and bad results. You’re right, expensive does not mean good.
In an ELS the diaphragm is not physically connected to the signal like in a dynamic system but moves within an induced field. The question was really do different components control the field better than others and are there sonic differences?
You could argue that the components are imposing a signature whilst controlling the electrostatic field but the variables are too many to ascertain whether it’s down to one component.... or is it.
A question directed to my peers.
Again many thanks Sumotan, It sounds (excuse the pun) like different components do impart a different characteristic.
You say that you have changed the crossover and heard a difference how about components in the diaphragm circuit?
This is only a voltage doubler and not necessarily in the signal path.
You say that you have changed the crossover and heard a difference how about components in the diaphragm circuit?
This is only a voltage doubler and not necessarily in the signal path.
Hi Snax
Your welcome. Apologies I've not meddle with the bias circuit on my ML so can't really
advice you on this. If you've read threads that changing power cords improving the
sound of ESL speakers I would imagine that it might affect the sound. From my
experience in mucking around with digital stuff, perceive sound change be it good or
bad can be heard from digital side with change of component types which should not happen cause it's still in digital domain prior to analog conversion
Cheers
Your welcome. Apologies I've not meddle with the bias circuit on my ML so can't really
advice you on this. If you've read threads that changing power cords improving the
sound of ESL speakers I would imagine that it might affect the sound. From my
experience in mucking around with digital stuff, perceive sound change be it good or
bad can be heard from digital side with change of component types which should not happen cause it's still in digital domain prior to analog conversion
Cheers
Hi,
the caps in the voltage doublers .... just choose those with sufficient voltage capability if You think You have to replace them.
They don't influence sound ... at least no more than a mark drawn with an edding on the mod point of the front wall of Your listening room would ... or a power cable ... or a thimble full of snake oil
The cap on the primary side would be a more profitable object of change.
But then keep in mind that the transforners used in the Audiostatics are very cheap low-quality types.
Imho those are the real sonic bottleneck of the speakers.
jauu
Calvin
the caps in the voltage doublers .... just choose those with sufficient voltage capability if You think You have to replace them.
They don't influence sound ... at least no more than a mark drawn with an edding on the mod point of the front wall of Your listening room would ... or a power cable ... or a thimble full of snake oil
The cap on the primary side would be a more profitable object of change.
But then keep in mind that the transforners used in the Audiostatics are very cheap low-quality types.
Imho those are the real sonic bottleneck of the speakers.
jauu
Calvin
Hey Calvin, good call.
I have been following the use of reversed 6V toroid transformers closely and will look to using them.
Component wise the voltage doubler network seamed isolated and I was trying to wrestle with the idea that a component on the Xover side could effect a difference in an induced environment although Sumotan has suggested that he has witnessed it and therefore I will experiment myself.
To be honest, it looks like I'm going to have to rebuild both diaphragms as matching them will be impossible. I have bought some Elvamide but the tensioning is where the sprinkling of luck / pixie wings with a heavy amount of snake oil will make an appearance. Bicycle Inner tubes and weights all sound like voodoo.
I have been following the use of reversed 6V toroid transformers closely and will look to using them.
Component wise the voltage doubler network seamed isolated and I was trying to wrestle with the idea that a component on the Xover side could effect a difference in an induced environment although Sumotan has suggested that he has witnessed it and therefore I will experiment myself.
To be honest, it looks like I'm going to have to rebuild both diaphragms as matching them will be impossible. I have bought some Elvamide but the tensioning is where the sprinkling of luck / pixie wings with a heavy amount of snake oil will make an appearance. Bicycle Inner tubes and weights all sound like voodoo.
Why do you need Elvamide Snax ? My ML panels diaphragm
are just held together with 3M tape. I would imagine that
you can do the same right ? I've always wondered about
the tension of the diaphragm, what is the right amount.
Surely different tension will have different timbre especially
when over tone is concern
are just held together with 3M tape. I would imagine that
you can do the same right ? I've always wondered about
the tension of the diaphragm, what is the right amount.
Surely different tension will have different timbre especially
when over tone is concern
Hi,
Elvamide is no glue, but a Nylon derivative used as diaphragm coating.
ML uses ITO sputtered films and -due to the non-stability over time- additional fluid coating that they call 'slurry' .... probabely some carbon black loaded stuff based on a acrylic or different binder.
The Audiostatics are FR-ESLs, so You can get away with thermal tensioning.
Just lay down the film on a flat surface ... tension and fix lightly with small strips of tape .... glue the stator to the film .... tension it with a heat gun ... coat ... tension again.
The beauty of heat tensioning is the close tolerance of the final base resonance value, which is nearly spot on the final value.
jauu
Calvin
Elvamide is no glue, but a Nylon derivative used as diaphragm coating.
ML uses ITO sputtered films and -due to the non-stability over time- additional fluid coating that they call 'slurry' .... probabely some carbon black loaded stuff based on a acrylic or different binder.
The Audiostatics are FR-ESLs, so You can get away with thermal tensioning.
Just lay down the film on a flat surface ... tension and fix lightly with small strips of tape .... glue the stator to the film .... tension it with a heat gun ... coat ... tension again.
The beauty of heat tensioning is the close tolerance of the final base resonance value, which is nearly spot on the final value.
jauu
Calvin
Hi,
the caps in the voltage doublers .... just choose those with sufficient voltage capability if You think You have to replace them.
They don't influence sound ... at least no more than a mark drawn with an edding on the mod point of the front wall of Your listening room would ... or a power cable ... or a thimble full of snake oil
The cap on the primary side would be a more profitable object of change.
But then keep in mind that the transforners used in the Audiostatics are very cheap low-quality types.
Imho those are the real sonic bottleneck of the speakers.
jauu
Calvin
Absolutely. The only advantage to using a better grade of diode or cap would be to improve longevity of the circuitry. Even if there were differences, they'd be utterly swamped by the transformer nonlinearities. But good luck finding an inexpensive transformer that improves upon their (undoubtedly) custom-made parts...
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