Luck me....I got 12ea More Acoustat panels...over 30 here now... spectral-non 3-5wire oldys...some of the panels back felt was lose...so I got my trusty 3m dap contack glue out with panels standing up...Don't lay them down!... Pulled the felt off one peace at a time so there ezy to put back in the same spot...dap on the felt...then the panel...small pant brush ONLY!..give it 10 min....back on....
After owning ever pr of Acoustat there are. more than once....I use the 1+1s as the test setup...
Why...well like it are not with a good 5k bias...the 1+1 can give 97-8% of all we get from any I have own....in the right room, righ setup
Yes it a lot of fun to get more bass out of
the biger 4s..2+2...6s....33-44 spectral....but less can be more..right!
But back to re-glueing the felt after over 30 years....most all the old glue is dry out....moting the felt with new glue made a big diff in the sound...
I found this when I swapped out the 1+1 older panels...the older felt was still holding...I thought...hehe
I new it would help the bass but the shockre was the new ambience an topend..gofig
all just one mans finding...
PS..stopet a lot off panels noise...would do this first befor any thing to stop noise....$7.Wallmart
After owning ever pr of Acoustat there are. more than once....I use the 1+1s as the test setup...
Why...well like it are not with a good 5k bias...the 1+1 can give 97-8% of all we get from any I have own....in the right room, righ setup
Yes it a lot of fun to get more bass out of
the biger 4s..2+2...6s....33-44 spectral....but less can be more..right!
But back to re-glueing the felt after over 30 years....most all the old glue is dry out....moting the felt with new glue made a big diff in the sound...
I found this when I swapped out the 1+1 older panels...the older felt was still holding...I thought...hehe
I new it would help the bass but the shockre was the new ambience an topend..gofig
all just one mans finding...
PS..stopet a lot off panels noise...would do this first befor any thing to stop noise....$7.Wallmart
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Were not talking heavy coats on either... panel or felt...but you wont it to stay...with good hold...that how dap contact glue works...both sides
I have panels with paper panters tape on the back.. felt removed....give better, clearer top end ..in over depend rooms I have found....just like pull all but two screws from the each panels well give more output...but most like the stock felt...
It like the old stock parts in the bias after 30 years.....Small price to pay..less than $30 in parts... for two interfaces.....then you can get full output...with 50-60 tube watts I have found..
I have panels with paper panters tape on the back.. felt removed....give better, clearer top end ..in over depend rooms I have found....just like pull all but two screws from the each panels well give more output...but most like the stock felt...
It like the old stock parts in the bias after 30 years.....Small price to pay..less than $30 in parts... for two interfaces.....then you can get full output...with 50-60 tube watts I have found..
At the factory, Acoustat used a spray contact adhesive applied to the felt only. After the glue tacked-up, the felt was pressed into place on the louver. If I remember correctly, the adhesive was 3M 4693.
You can purchase an equivalent product in spray cans at hardware stores or home centers as 3M 77. A thin but uniform coat should be applied to the felt, allowed to dry per the product's instructions, and then pressed into place on the louver. Never spray adhesive on the louver.
TYU's observations about the felt falling off is correct: this does seem to happen over time. Apparently the contact adhesive dries out after several decades. The adhesion of the felt should always be checked any time the sock is removed.
You can purchase an equivalent product in spray cans at hardware stores or home centers as 3M 77. A thin but uniform coat should be applied to the felt, allowed to dry per the product's instructions, and then pressed into place on the louver. Never spray adhesive on the louver.
TYU's observations about the felt falling off is correct: this does seem to happen over time. Apparently the contact adhesive dries out after several decades. The adhesion of the felt should always be checked any time the sock is removed.
To me, it funny how all this work on these old Acoustat panels has work out.
I gess it because I have had-have so minny other speaker over the 30 years of owning Acoustat....thay just keep on,keeping on..... as others come an go....
keep in mind the felt is not a solid peace....it made up of thin layers...that even if it feels like it holding....the older glue is dry out!....it only holding on by that thin outer layer.. that they bass notes have beating up on for years......yes the new Dap glue.. has to add small amount of mass...but in this case is a good thing.....I gess that's why it helpful with the unwonted panel mount noise....sound even better the next day or two, after it cures....it seems to titiens up...
I got a pr of 2+2 that were the vary first ones ....with the big box 121 interfaces with the bars holing the wood.... on the sides.....had a dull sound...have 3 pr so new some thing was off....found some lose wires...got them fixet,but still off sounding
So I re-glued the felt...Wow that helpet pull there sound togather...big diff
still all just one mans finding...lot fun to get even better sound out of all redy great sounding ESL..........
I gess it because I have had-have so minny other speaker over the 30 years of owning Acoustat....thay just keep on,keeping on..... as others come an go....
keep in mind the felt is not a solid peace....it made up of thin layers...that even if it feels like it holding....the older glue is dry out!....it only holding on by that thin outer layer.. that they bass notes have beating up on for years......yes the new Dap glue.. has to add small amount of mass...but in this case is a good thing.....I gess that's why it helpful with the unwonted panel mount noise....sound even better the next day or two, after it cures....it seems to titiens up...
I got a pr of 2+2 that were the vary first ones ....with the big box 121 interfaces with the bars holing the wood.... on the sides.....had a dull sound...have 3 pr so new some thing was off....found some lose wires...got them fixet,but still off sounding
So I re-glued the felt...Wow that helpet pull there sound togather...big diff
still all just one mans finding...lot fun to get even better sound out of all redy great sounding ESL..........
About the-glueing of the felt an....first thing I do with any ESL this old... is re-work the bias parts in any of the interfaces.....even puthing in new old stock 500meg res..
you can still find the glass stock type on the web...I paid $7.ea US...trust me that 500meg has been cooking....24/7 like all the bias parts...
But I use a QSC old pro amp to test all ESL....why they sound great...an they have (Fans)....Fans work well.... to tell us if the interfaces tranfourmers,parts,bias is working well....as with the 2+2s before re-glueing....the fans woulds come on vary eze... be for the re-glueing...now even pushed loud the fans don't even come on....I was shocket..
AS for Andys point.....thank you Andy.....
I still would ,with a pant brush ONLY!...An the panels standing up ONLY!.... I would put some dap on the old panels....Why, back in the day... when the panels were new...yes good contack was made with just the felt glued....but now with the old glue an dust of minny years on the panel....you need to get a good hold
all just one mans finding....
you can still find the glass stock type on the web...I paid $7.ea US...trust me that 500meg has been cooking....24/7 like all the bias parts...
But I use a QSC old pro amp to test all ESL....why they sound great...an they have (Fans)....Fans work well.... to tell us if the interfaces tranfourmers,parts,bias is working well....as with the 2+2s before re-glueing....the fans woulds come on vary eze... be for the re-glueing...now even pushed loud the fans don't even come on....I was shocket..
AS for Andys point.....thank you Andy.....
I still would ,with a pant brush ONLY!...An the panels standing up ONLY!.... I would put some dap on the old panels....Why, back in the day... when the panels were new...yes good contack was made with just the felt glued....but now with the old glue an dust of minny years on the panel....you need to get a good hold
all just one mans finding....
I got in to using the Dap-77spray.... years back on my Magnepans re-wireing ....I have used the spray cans 3M 77.....but found the pant brush works better...like most things to day the 77 spray is diff I have found ...are...these panels are not new, clean surfaces!
again just one mans finding..............
again just one mans finding..............
Year ago pic up a pr of the older first Martin logan CLS...89-90
Thay were owned by a smoker..could not see thought the mylar.....
So I set out to see if I could re-work these panels.
Thay are my reference now....I have diff transfourmer an 5k bias in there interfaces now with no tone shaping setup like logan uses....just one 1ohm res....
No not as much bass as the Acousatas...but well play louder an clear as life it self...can be...22x48" panel with one peace of mylar..no felt in the back....Wow ,work out better than I ever thought....but this re-gluing of the felt on the Acoustats....sound is much closer now to the CLS...gofig
here some pic..........
Thay were owned by a smoker..could not see thought the mylar.....
So I set out to see if I could re-work these panels.
Thay are my reference now....I have diff transfourmer an 5k bias in there interfaces now with no tone shaping setup like logan uses....just one 1ohm res....
No not as much bass as the Acousatas...but well play louder an clear as life it self...can be...22x48" panel with one peace of mylar..no felt in the back....Wow ,work out better than I ever thought....but this re-gluing of the felt on the Acoustats....sound is much closer now to the CLS...gofig
here some pic..........
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Very nice MLs. Mine are the Monitor 3 with the DD OTLs. I also have Model 3 with the upgraded Medallion interfaces. They've had minimal use from the looks of them, very clean inside out. They sound great, no dullness, lots of volume. But they are a notch below the Monitor 3. I have a selection of superb amps to drive them and I've concluded that directly driven ESLs are the ultimate. They are simply closer to the source. I have a second pair of OTLs so I could build a pair of 6 but I don't have the ceiling height and I'm not interested in the 'wall of sound'
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The Acoustat 3ea panels setup just sound right!....It must have to do with the bass tranfourmer orange positive input weir ....it must show a lode to the amp driving the interfaces that it likes...I gess some may say its the one 8" panels in the mix...but I have used 3 9" panels an got the same great sound...funny
The 1+1 an the 2s are the only one that use the red bass input wire...an it has a sound of its owne for sure....2 panels side by said never sounds right to me...
The Servos are a lot fun...My first pr were the Xs..... with the servos.
But then I went to the 121 interfaces....I like the run any amp setup,an just stayed
Some say driving a transfourm with a tranforer is nuts....but I got vary good sound over the years....with martin logan,Quad Sound lab JanZen an the like..
but some say I am nuts...
This dullness is not someing you get-hear... till it gone...as I side minny times ...it hard to get bad sound out of any Acoustats....less the bias is real low...
all just my findinds
The 1+1 an the 2s are the only one that use the red bass input wire...an it has a sound of its owne for sure....2 panels side by said never sounds right to me...
The Servos are a lot fun...My first pr were the Xs..... with the servos.
But then I went to the 121 interfaces....I like the run any amp setup,an just stayed
Some say driving a transfourm with a tranforer is nuts....but I got vary good sound over the years....with martin logan,Quad Sound lab JanZen an the like..
but some say I am nuts...
This dullness is not someing you get-hear... till it gone...as I side minny times ...it hard to get bad sound out of any Acoustats....less the bias is real low...
all just my findinds
The bass input wire is red on all my panels. Well, kind of pinkish, they are all just faded, almost white. Transients and overall detail/resolution is significantly better with the servos. I have Citation XX, LSR&D Model 101/102, Meridian 105 to compare with. Everything is just 'bigger' and better with the servos. Perhaps my interfaces need going over after all.
Well.....with all tubes we get a gift..so I say..... Bob Carver calls it room feed back ...you do know some of the best microphone are tubes....that's right your servos hear an replay the sound your 3s make in your room...like all tube amps tubes...that's why I like tubes...
Also all SS sand amps when the sound stop...the output drop to near zero ...tube amps all ways have about 1-1/2 ohm when the sound stops.....
Back to Bob Carver some call him a nut also.....not me...hehe....I use his Sunfire300 sand amps.....he put a 1ohm 50 watt resistor on one of the speaker outputs...to give that 1ohm out impedance.....best sounding sand amps I have ever owned..
So you are not going to get much better sound than....OTL servo tubes running any ESL..If you like tubes sound...an don't fear the tubesn high voltages..the heat,...look,
Also all SS sand amps when the sound stop...the output drop to near zero ...tube amps all ways have about 1-1/2 ohm when the sound stops.....
Back to Bob Carver some call him a nut also.....not me...hehe....I use his Sunfire300 sand amps.....he put a 1ohm 50 watt resistor on one of the speaker outputs...to give that 1ohm out impedance.....best sounding sand amps I have ever owned..
So you are not going to get much better sound than....OTL servo tubes running any ESL..If you like tubes sound...an don't fear the tubesn high voltages..the heat,...look,
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The 3s sound great. Beaming is not an issue with me. The center panel is aimed at my ears 12 ft. away. No different from any other speaker ime. I'm thinking to power each pair of panels with a separate servo amp, so 6 servo amps total. I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to cross each pair over differently. I have a DBX 4820.
No...well it work maybe....but ...every added panel.. is a gain in output of2-3db
that's like adding a 100 watts... more power with ever panel!
Your servo amps work better...play louder...with more added panel...well up to 4-9" for each amp...
You well get less output trying to drive one panel at a time...with it own amp...
that's like adding a 100 watts... more power with ever panel!
Your servo amps work better...play louder...with more added panel...well up to 4-9" for each amp...
You well get less output trying to drive one panel at a time...with it own amp...
Yeah, I get that. But I'm still driving all 6 panels...with 3 amps instead of 1. It's not more 'power' with every panel, it's 3db more with every 'panel' until you run out of 'power', which comes from the amp. So, you can't help but get more performance overall when reducing the load on multiple amps, no? Also, it gives you the ability to cross the panels over at higher/lower frequency. Outside panels crossed over at say, 120hz, center above that.
please don't think I am tell you what to do....we got have fun with Acuoustats..or any ESL.....right
I am just telling you what-how the panels...interfaces...servo tube amps...seem to work togather.....to get the best-most-Big-tone we can....ok...
If I were to run one 9"with my 121 interfaces ful rang....it would cook the parts an I would get less output!
In the pic of your setup....look like you are surfing from what I had for 40 years
More great audio-speakers...than room... ....
I have a studio now I belt...
18'x40x14....with a moveable wall.......my room today is 18'x25' only one chair...
I well say the room is 70-80% of the sound...
If you don't go you wont know....
All just one mans finding
I am just telling you what-how the panels...interfaces...servo tube amps...seem to work togather.....to get the best-most-Big-tone we can....ok...
If I were to run one 9"with my 121 interfaces ful rang....it would cook the parts an I would get less output!
In the pic of your setup....look like you are surfing from what I had for 40 years
More great audio-speakers...than room... ....
I have a studio now I belt...
18'x40x14....with a moveable wall.......my room today is 18'x25' only one chair...
I well say the room is 70-80% of the sound...
If you don't go you wont know....
All just one mans finding
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