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ER Audio 505 hybrid electrostatic build
ER Audio 505 hybrid electrostatic build
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Old 12th May 2017, 05:47 PM   #21
Bosco Birdswood is offline Bosco Birdswood
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ER Audio 505 hybrid electrostatic build
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
You've made the exceptional claim that your small sewer pipe sub is flat to nearly 20 Hz. So I'd like to hear how you measured that or is it just your intuitive impression?



B.


Sorry only just seen your post. After much research I came across DB Keale's method of extreme close miking a woofer which allows you to get accurate measurements up to about 300hz without interference from reflections because you are so close to the woofer.

I used a UMIK-1 approximately 1cm from the woofer to get the measurements.

Don't forget that I am using a fairly significant low shelf boost to get there - this is not the natural response of the enclosure!


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Old 12th May 2017, 10:03 PM   #22
Bosco Birdswood is offline Bosco Birdswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
You've made the exceptional claim that your small sewer pipe sub is flat to nearly 20 Hz. So I'd like to hear how you measured that or is it just your intuitive impression?

B.
[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]
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Old 13th May 2017, 12:06 AM   #23
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Thanks. Appreciate that you've provided complete details.

B.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:17 PM   #24
ENCR is offline ENCR  Germany
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In #19 you mentioned "John Watkinson who has guided me through this project makes an amazing Omnidirectional speaker which actually incorporates both methods- the midrange driver fires upwards and then there are two woofers in a bipolar config like you mentioned".

Is there a published report for this? I had a quick look at the Resolution magazine but didn't see it there,
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:55 PM   #25
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENCR View Post
In #19 you mentioned "John Watkinson who has guided me through this project makes an amazing Omnidirectional speaker....
No need to check this Watkinson person when you merely have to look at the nearby thread on MBL speaker. Granted, you'd need $230,000* but genuine omnidirectional.

OK, that's tongue in cheek, but a very interesting speaker design although suffused top to bottom with Gwenyth Paltrow-type** promotion.

Having said that, I think dipole and omni designs, including the speaker in this thread with a 40 Hz bottom end (before EQ), go a long way to enhancing the reproduction of music at home.

B.
* no misprint
** meme for expensive unverified unlikely claims
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Old 3rd July 2017, 08:40 PM   #26
Bosco Birdswood is offline Bosco Birdswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENCR View Post
In #19 you mentioned "John Watkinson who has guided me through this project makes an amazing Omnidirectional speaker which actually incorporates both methods- the midrange driver fires upwards and then there are two woofers in a bipolar config like you mentioned".

Is there a published report for this? I had a quick look at the Resolution magazine but didn't see it there,

Sadly not - I'm lucky enough to know him and have been to his home to listen to the speakers. They feature in this talk linked on Linkwitz site though:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/The_Magic/Directivity.htm

Here's a photo of the small version:

Click the image to open in full size.


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Old 4th July 2017, 08:26 PM   #27
ENCR is offline ENCR  Germany
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Thanks for the link and information. I will listen to John Watkinson's talk My browser tells me I had already visited the Linkwitz page, but I had incorrectly assumed the Linkwitz webpage was identical with a previously-published talk. This page may be the most succinct expression of SL's work with open baffle speakers and the criteria which have to be met for a credible sound stage to appear before us.

I now realise that your ER mini panel build is effectively the same as the LX Mini.

I would be very interested to hear how you find the height of the stereo image. From the photo in #5 the woofers are no higher than about 50cm. Would a singer sound as high as the top of the electrostatic panel? (c.1m/3ft, I guess).
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Old 9th July 2017, 12:38 AM   #28
Bosco Birdswood is offline Bosco Birdswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENCR View Post
Thanks for the link and information. I will listen to John Watkinson's talk My browser tells me I had already visited the Linkwitz page, but I had incorrectly assumed the Linkwitz webpage was identical with a previously-published talk. This page may be the most succinct expression of SL's work with open baffle speakers and the criteria which have to be met for a credible sound stage to appear before us.

I now realise that your ER mini panel build is effectively the same as the LX Mini.

I would be very interested to hear how you find the height of the stereo image. From the photo in #5 the woofers are no higher than about 50cm. Would a singer sound as high as the top of the electrostatic panel? (c.1m/3ft, I guess).

This is an interesting one because in reality height in an acoustic image is purely psychoacoustic; our ears use time domain differences between the ears to assess location on a horizontal plane, and the frequency domain to assess the size and distance of an object (this is actually all touched upon in that lecture I linked above). Height information is apparently filled in by the brain based on common assumption - a singer not singing from two foot above the ground, an acoustic guitar not 6 feet above the singer.

Don't forget also that recording equipment as zero functionality for vertical adjustment. While the Fairchild mastering limiter has a "Vert / Lat" mode for example, the vertical component merely deals with information common to both channels, i.e. Information we perceive to be coming from the centre of the image.

All of the above being said, the 505s are pretty terrible for vertical dispersion which won't help with the illusion of sound stage height. This is obviously due to the size of the panels being big enough to beam the mid and high frequencies vertically (horizontal dispersion is fine because the panels are segmented so only the middle strip emits the HF), but not big enough to be a line source.

In short, when you stand up the top end disappears! This is a major advantage of the LX Mini over my speakers. Linkwitz is not a fan of ESLs apparently for these exact reasons.


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Old 9th July 2017, 01:39 AM   #29
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Psychologists (real ones, not web wannabees or after-dinner engineer speakers) think in terms of empirically identified cues. There are a variety of cues available to people to shape their auditory perceptions of azimuth and elevation.

Stereo speakers playing recordings can sneak in* a couple of persuasive cues to azimuth (not all the cues, obviously, but some persuasive ones) and so people can get localization in the horizontal plane and we all love it.

But stereo speakers and recordings can't do much about issuing elevation cues or at least maybe not explored enough.

How a speaker sends sound towards you can, I suppose, interact with how well it handles the cues to the sense of azimuth and elevation. But not in any simple way.

Ben
*for the most part, the cues you get from sound (to say nothing of sight) while sitting in your music room identify the speakers, duh, but the illusion of an orchestra out there in front of you somewhere is pretty compelling too.
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Old 9th July 2017, 05:32 AM   #30
MITsound is offline MITsound  Canada
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I tried out a vintage pair of Siemens electrostatic tweeters, to assist with vertical dispersion.
Lucked out, they are audibly a good level output match with the mini panels, unobtrusive on axis, and maintain a good treble balance above the panels.
They are monopole, and include internal transformers.
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