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Electrostatic Tweeter / Midrange
Electrostatic Tweeter / Midrange
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Old 7th April 2017, 01:26 AM   #11
wreckingball is offline wreckingball  United States
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Wondering why this thread fizzled and died just shortly after it was posted...
Because OP stopped replying? Too many complications with a design like this?
Not worth the time/effort, and just easier to go with full panel?

What about an ESL tweeter in a bookshelf-type enclosure, foregoing dipole pattern?
Terrible idea? ... Do-able, but with big compromises?

@WrineX and Jer: Did either of you explore this further?

Cheers
-Steve
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Old 7th April 2017, 03:10 AM   #12
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

a pure esl tweeter isn't as superior -if at all- to a dynamic tweeter as a wideband esl is over a dynamic 2- or 3-way combo.
In fact there are parameters where the esl excels in the midrange and the dynamic speaker in the upper highs.
I see two major advantages on the esl side ....
- its wideband capability, thereby reducing the number of xover breaks
- the posssibility to shape membrane area frequency dependant (segmenting)
Both advantages become irrelevant with true tweeters.

jauu
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Old 7th April 2017, 09:01 AM   #13
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Electrostatic Tweeter / Midrange
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
...there are parameters where the esl excels in the midrange and the dynamic speaker in the upper highs.
I'm don't quite agree with those words, but I just installed some 1 1/8 inch silk goo-infused dome tweeters (can go as low as 1800 Hz) in my winter home system.

For a long time, I've thought tweeter power capability is very desirable and the silk domes can play brass instruments very loud and agreeably. Long ago, I made tweeters with 9 domes (3 x 3) on a cylindrical contoured box. Wonderful.

Hard to get loudness from my DIY ESLs because the speaker impedance gets very low at high frequencies and even my brutish amp complains early. Any fixes?

But once again, I'd take the purity of the ESLs as my first priority.

Ben
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Old 7th April 2017, 03:00 PM   #14
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Ben I dont have much to contribute to your esl questions so this is just for my own benefit from a marketing standpoint.
Im curious as you seem to be looking for a "small" tweeter that can go to about 500 hz?
1- what If there was a smallish free swinging ribbon say around 6-8 inches long, 1/2-3/4 in wide that could go that low. Would that be of interest to you?
2- why try to go that low with 5-6 inch cone? seems 1khz would be a better choice?
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Old 7th April 2017, 07:02 PM   #15
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Electrostatic Tweeter / Midrange
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowmass View Post
so this is just for my own benefit from a marketing standpoint.
Im curious as you seem to be looking for a "small" tweeter that can go to about 500 hz?
My only purposes were:

1. in supporting Calvin's post, to agree that some non-ESL tweeters aren't bad and some go low, loud, disperse, efficient, and cheap, and

2. I wish I knew a fix get my preferred ESLs to play high frequencies louder because the matching transformer impedance gets so low at high frequencies even my powerful amp burps.

B.
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Old 7th April 2017, 08:54 PM   #16
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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ok thanks Ben
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Old 7th April 2017, 10:57 PM   #17
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckingball View Post
Wondering why this thread fizzled and died just shortly after it was posted...
Because OP stopped replying? Too many complications with a design like this?
Not worth the time/effort, and just easier to go with full panel?

What about an ESL tweeter in a bookshelf-type enclosure, foregoing dipole pattern?
Terrible idea? ... Do-able, but with big compromises?

@WrineX and Jer: Did either of you explore this further?

Cheers
-Steve
well i made this sandwich esl that reached 800 hz. at pretty decent levels with small measurements. exactly for this reason to m8 with dynamic woofer midrange. still want to make on that goes lower down to 300hz. with moderate diemension and circular or oval. with rings. i did not gave up ont he idea yet. but it is allot of work and im kiond of limited by materials. pcb works but is just not strong enough. i bought plastic screws to bolt the panels together at a few points in the midle just like quad did to make the stators more sturdy. but i did not try yet. no time or to many projects
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Old 8th April 2017, 02:46 AM   #18
wreckingball is offline wreckingball  United States
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I hear you about no time..ha!
So, you were wanting to match point source radiation of mid/woofer?, am I understanding that right?
Guess it never occurred to me, but makes total sense now that I think about it..
BTW, those ESLs that you came up with sound promising for a good project someday..

One of the main reasons I 'bumped' this thread, is because I saw the JansZen thread earlier this week.
Do those little panels radiate in point source?
(I guess I don't know how they incorporate the ESL into their product.)

Point about that though:
A lot of people think ESLs are 'messy' and therefore not worth the trouble.
Most here know that they are very much worth the 'trouble' , but to 'regular' people, a panel nested inside a bookshelf is probably appealing...

Muse-on please, very interesting, all of this...

Cheers
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Last edited by wreckingball; 8th April 2017 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 8th April 2017, 03:04 AM   #19
wreckingball is offline wreckingball  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Hi,

a pure esl tweeter isn't as superior -if at all- to a dynamic tweeter as a wideband esl is over a dynamic 2- or 3-way combo.
In fact there are parameters where the esl excels in the midrange and the dynamic speaker in the upper highs.
I see two major advantages on the esl side ....
- its wideband capability, thereby reducing the number of xover breaks
- the posssibility to shape membrane area frequency dependant (segmenting)
Both advantages become irrelevant with true tweeters
Thanks Calvin, for all the information...
The two listed advantages I agree with.
But what about a third? Namely distortion... Should be much lower with ESL, no?

Any further comments very much appreciated...
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Old 8th April 2017, 05:56 AM   #20
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

a tweeter imho is a driver playing above at least 2kHz in a 2-way and >3kHz in a multi-way.
Dynamic tweeters can be very low in distortion here also.
A esl tweeter isn't superior in this regard per se.
The mass/drive-force relationship of a dome tweeter can be as good and even better.
It's small size guarantees for a wider dispersion.
It's easier to drive and to achieve high SPLs.
A esl tweeter requires high precision manufacturing as You're dealing with air gaps of 0.5mm and less ..... even smaller but similar in dimensions to headphone panels.
A optimized stator design required very small holes/openings that's manufacturing could well be beyond the typical DIYer's capabilities (fine meshed structures).
Things are much easier for larger panels and they use the inherent superiority of the esl in the midrange to an advantage.

jauu
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