Thanks for reading..
I would appreciate the help of experienced magnetic Planar Driver diy's for this project.
I am invested in the project so Im serious and ready to go. I am at the beginning stages and I would like some people to have an continuing interest in this project. Will post pictures and maybe sound bites as we get though it so you can know how things are going.
I am skilled at building many things. Career wise I'm a 15 year general finish carpenter. Before this I was a 15 year Machinist. My side interests a mix of engineering & art which drives an inventive side. I have a lifetime of experience with many types of materials - techniques and tooling. Built my first custom made speakers at 13yo and been a dedicate audio guy since.
**************************************************************************************************************************
Hope you don't mind the intro. I just want you to know that I'm not one that will be wasting your help and you to know all interest will all be appreciated.
Yes there is another reason I write the intro. I have already been told right here in these threads that this Won't Work. Im not sure what the means as it could be just in the eyes of the commenter. I think it will or Can work.
Explaination:
This Cell Phone magnetic planar speaker system's overall size will be around the size of the face of a Note 4 or Iphone 6.. 6.0 x 3.0 inches Face and around 1/8th deep. Hopefully I can have magnets on only one side.
The catch:
I want to only use the power provided by the phone Output!
Yeah they told me it won't work. I dont expect High SPL or a beautifully wide frequency response.. Just sound is good enough for now.
Of course I want to do the best design & construction possible to make what I can out of this project. I would do it just to see how it Won't Work.
Please if you would.. Try to see it the way I am and assume it will work well. All we need to do is make it right.
**************************************************************************************************************************
The Materials for 2 drivers: (I have for now)
*Magnets - 200 of the N52 neo's. Dimensions are 5 x 3 x 2mm.
*Different Foils that could be used for voice traces: (.0006 = 15.24mic) (.0005 = 12.7mic) (.0003 - 7.62mic) All Soft alu.
*Membrane material will be (.0005 = 12.7mic) PVC (Saran Wrap).
Other Materials I will probably be using:
*.010" thick Steel Sheet Metal for the body and magnet struts.
* Small rectangular Aluminum rod bent in 3 places to form a rectangular ring of outer most shape of the phone face that would be the Voice Membrane frame and spacer.
**************************************************************************************************************************
**Here is where I could really appreciate some of your ideas**
Objectives decisions:
1. Obtain the highest mechanical efficiency as I can.. Best SPL and then Frequency Response.
2. Making the Lightest membrane as to be just strong enough to hold up in the intended environment.
3. Obtaining the highest electrical efficiency at around a Headphone voice coil style Foil Trace Resistance of 40 ohm with the length x width x thickness.
4. Most efficient foil voice Trace design / Layout - Length - Pattern Shape and Gap Widths between traces.
5. Magnet Pattern layout and Spacing.
Build order priorities:
1. Dealing with cutting a voice coil or trace.
*What are ways to efficiently cut such thin foil?
2. Stretching and fastening the PVC Membrane before applying the Alu Trace to it.
3. Sandwiching the Alu Voice Trace between 2 pieces of the PVC Membrane. *Good Idea?
4. Best ways to Stick the Foil Voice Trace to the PVC membrane.
5. Gapping the magnet and membrane.
**************************************************************************************************************************
(What if)
Lets say the speakers just won't perform well enough. So your help doesn't go to waste.. From what is learned I will then consider adding a very small 5v (USB) powered stereo amplifier.
I will leave it at this for now and see what you guys have to say..
Advice on any step is welcomed. I will not argue any points all views will be considered important. Questionable areas are most important to me and will encourage me to toward the goals of these speakers!
I dont even mind if you guess How you think it will sound if at all!
I will get down to the step by step specifics next.. Hope your there.
Thanks
I would appreciate the help of experienced magnetic Planar Driver diy's for this project.
I am invested in the project so Im serious and ready to go. I am at the beginning stages and I would like some people to have an continuing interest in this project. Will post pictures and maybe sound bites as we get though it so you can know how things are going.
I am skilled at building many things. Career wise I'm a 15 year general finish carpenter. Before this I was a 15 year Machinist. My side interests a mix of engineering & art which drives an inventive side. I have a lifetime of experience with many types of materials - techniques and tooling. Built my first custom made speakers at 13yo and been a dedicate audio guy since.
**************************************************************************************************************************
Hope you don't mind the intro. I just want you to know that I'm not one that will be wasting your help and you to know all interest will all be appreciated.
Yes there is another reason I write the intro. I have already been told right here in these threads that this Won't Work. Im not sure what the means as it could be just in the eyes of the commenter. I think it will or Can work.
Explaination:
This Cell Phone magnetic planar speaker system's overall size will be around the size of the face of a Note 4 or Iphone 6.. 6.0 x 3.0 inches Face and around 1/8th deep. Hopefully I can have magnets on only one side.
The catch:
I want to only use the power provided by the phone Output!
Yeah they told me it won't work. I dont expect High SPL or a beautifully wide frequency response.. Just sound is good enough for now.
Of course I want to do the best design & construction possible to make what I can out of this project. I would do it just to see how it Won't Work.
Please if you would.. Try to see it the way I am and assume it will work well. All we need to do is make it right.
**************************************************************************************************************************
The Materials for 2 drivers: (I have for now)
*Magnets - 200 of the N52 neo's. Dimensions are 5 x 3 x 2mm.
*Different Foils that could be used for voice traces: (.0006 = 15.24mic) (.0005 = 12.7mic) (.0003 - 7.62mic) All Soft alu.
*Membrane material will be (.0005 = 12.7mic) PVC (Saran Wrap).
Other Materials I will probably be using:
*.010" thick Steel Sheet Metal for the body and magnet struts.
* Small rectangular Aluminum rod bent in 3 places to form a rectangular ring of outer most shape of the phone face that would be the Voice Membrane frame and spacer.
**************************************************************************************************************************
**Here is where I could really appreciate some of your ideas**
Objectives decisions:
1. Obtain the highest mechanical efficiency as I can.. Best SPL and then Frequency Response.
2. Making the Lightest membrane as to be just strong enough to hold up in the intended environment.
3. Obtaining the highest electrical efficiency at around a Headphone voice coil style Foil Trace Resistance of 40 ohm with the length x width x thickness.
4. Most efficient foil voice Trace design / Layout - Length - Pattern Shape and Gap Widths between traces.
5. Magnet Pattern layout and Spacing.
Build order priorities:
1. Dealing with cutting a voice coil or trace.
*What are ways to efficiently cut such thin foil?
2. Stretching and fastening the PVC Membrane before applying the Alu Trace to it.
3. Sandwiching the Alu Voice Trace between 2 pieces of the PVC Membrane. *Good Idea?
4. Best ways to Stick the Foil Voice Trace to the PVC membrane.
5. Gapping the magnet and membrane.
**************************************************************************************************************************
(What if)
Lets say the speakers just won't perform well enough. So your help doesn't go to waste.. From what is learned I will then consider adding a very small 5v (USB) powered stereo amplifier.
I will leave it at this for now and see what you guys have to say..
Advice on any step is welcomed. I will not argue any points all views will be considered important. Questionable areas are most important to me and will encourage me to toward the goals of these speakers!
I dont even mind if you guess How you think it will sound if at all!
I will get down to the step by step specifics next.. Hope your there.
Thanks
Im gathering the materials up. Im going to make a mock test jig out of wood that will position the magnets and membrane in its framework. And use 15 micron household foil to start all testing with. I may post picks of this stage if people would like.
The thing I don't know how to do is calculate the foil Trace length per the proper thicknesses/width mentioned above. I'm less of an electronic engineer than anything else.
Also your thoughts on what makes a more efficient Trace.. A wide foil Trace in front of each of the magnet rows or to divide the width into multiple opposing current paths in front of each magnet row.
Any advice could help..
The thing I don't know how to do is calculate the foil Trace length per the proper thicknesses/width mentioned above. I'm less of an electronic engineer than anything else.
Also your thoughts on what makes a more efficient Trace.. A wide foil Trace in front of each of the magnet rows or to divide the width into multiple opposing current paths in front of each magnet row.
Any advice could help..
Check how are orthodynamic headphones constructed. Read through this thread (only 1605 pages ):
Orthodynamic Roundup
):Orthodynamic Roundup
Hey thanks for the replies guys. Im happy you two have input. I've read posts here on diy in the planar section before.
I have done a little more research and have narrowed things a bit..
@ Icsaszar - Yeah I have browsed that thread in the past its a good one. I will go through it again so thanks! lol it is long but that's all the better imho ;]
@ WrineX - Ok I have these foils on hand to test and yeah as I was saying the cutting is one huge issue but that in turn isn't the show stopper. Youre right on it though.. If foil is used it needs to be in the 7 micron thick or less regioned or the length grows out of control quickly. The situation is that it gets very hard to find foil that's thinner.
So the thickness is say 7 micron ok good.. but.. the Width becomes the problem now.
*At 7 micron thick to make the Voice Trace (coil) a usable Length of around 76cm / the foil would need to be cut 0.0762mm Wide. Or 3 one-thousandths of an inch wide (the way I would say it).
Its all but impossible for me to do lol
------------------------------------------------
So I am now looking into Alu Wire!
* The smallest Alu Wire I could find is 50 awg which is around .025mm (.001") in diameter and I could get it Coated. Coated wire would be perfect because I could run the opposing coils closer together.
The problem here would be that the companies that sell this wire will want to sell me way too much of it at a minimum.
------------------------------------------------
My Question now:
* Would any of you here on Diy have any of this coated alu wire on hand ?
* Or where I may find a short usable sample amount of this Wire ?
One speakers Wire could be Usable in lengths up to 6 meters.. At around 40 ohms the Wire could range from 50 awg to 45 awg. (45 awg at 6 meters long comes in at 40 ohms) = perfect! :]
I would need enough to make 2 speakers plus extra to mess up a couple times
Thanks again and let me know your thoughts..
I have done a little more research and have narrowed things a bit..
@ Icsaszar - Yeah I have browsed that thread in the past its a good one. I will go through it again so thanks! lol it is long but that's all the better imho ;]
@ WrineX - Ok I have these foils on hand to test and yeah as I was saying the cutting is one huge issue but that in turn isn't the show stopper. Youre right on it though.. If foil is used it needs to be in the 7 micron thick or less regioned or the length grows out of control quickly. The situation is that it gets very hard to find foil that's thinner.
So the thickness is say 7 micron ok good.. but.. the Width becomes the problem now.
*At 7 micron thick to make the Voice Trace (coil) a usable Length of around 76cm / the foil would need to be cut 0.0762mm Wide. Or 3 one-thousandths of an inch wide (the way I would say it).
Its all but impossible for me to do lol
------------------------------------------------
So I am now looking into Alu Wire!
* The smallest Alu Wire I could find is 50 awg which is around .025mm (.001") in diameter and I could get it Coated. Coated wire would be perfect because I could run the opposing coils closer together.
The problem here would be that the companies that sell this wire will want to sell me way too much of it at a minimum.
------------------------------------------------
My Question now:
* Would any of you here on Diy have any of this coated alu wire on hand ?
* Or where I may find a short usable sample amount of this Wire ?
One speakers Wire could be Usable in lengths up to 6 meters.. At around 40 ohms the Wire could range from 50 awg to 45 awg. (45 awg at 6 meters long comes in at 40 ohms) = perfect! :]
I would need enough to make 2 speakers plus extra to mess up a couple times
Thanks again and let me know your thoughts..
check out wires.co.uk they have alu wire.
btw you can get away with verry thin copper wire since you wont be hitting it hard with 50 watts. so get the thinest magnet wire you can find, should be light enough to go high! get 3 micron mylar to decrease weight and ur done
on ebay is a seller for 3 micron , even 2 micron mylar. dirt cheap to
they have alu wire.btw you can get away with verry thin copper wire since you wont be hitting it hard with 50 watts. so get the thinest magnet wire you can find, should be light enough to go high! get 3 micron mylar to decrease weight and ur done
on ebay is a seller for 3 micron , even 2 micron mylar. dirt cheap to
I would do it just to see how it Won't Work.
Please if you would.. Try to see it the
way I am and assume it will work well.
All we need to do is make it right.
Thanks
Hi,
Try as I might I cannot assume it will work well "done right".
What I can assume is you don't understand the problems at all.
At best you can make a credible 6"x3" planar midrange driver
if you really know what you are doing, but that is difficult.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Thanks for the replys guys. It got me to do a little more research wire wise and here is what I've narrowed things to..
Project Wire Parameters:
* Wire Width & Length is dependent on the resulting Resistance in ohms and mechanical weight efficiency.
* Around 40 ohms total resistance is required.
* Usable Length is in the ranges of 76 to 230 cm (30 to 90 in) for each speaker system.
* Lowest wire weight to length is the Goal.
* Wire diameter formulas and Lengths below:
(45 awg at 600 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Too long and heavy.
(50 awg at 74 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Too Short in workable length.
(47 awg at 310 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Long and to the heavy side of desired efficiency but usable.
*(48 awg at 200 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ All parameters are efficiently excellent!
...........................................................................
If any of you could have any of this wire available for testing that would be awesome. Let me know..
Project Wire Parameters:
* Wire Width & Length is dependent on the resulting Resistance in ohms and mechanical weight efficiency.
* Around 40 ohms total resistance is required.
* Usable Length is in the ranges of 76 to 230 cm (30 to 90 in) for each speaker system.
* Lowest wire weight to length is the Goal.
* Wire diameter formulas and Lengths below:
(45 awg at 600 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Too long and heavy.
(50 awg at 74 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Too Short in workable length.
(47 awg at 310 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ Long and to the heavy side of desired efficiency but usable.
*(48 awg at 200 centimeters long = 40 ohms) ~ All parameters are efficiently excellent!
...........................................................................
If any of you could have any of this wire available for testing that would be awesome. Let me know..
check out wires.co.uk
btw you can get away with verry thin copper wire since you wont be hitting it hard with 50 watts. so get the thinest magnet wire you can find, should be light enough to go high! get 3 micron mylar to decrease weight and ur done
on ebay is a seller for 3 micron , even 2 micron mylar. dirt cheap to
Great WrineX I will investigate those scenarios now also!
I like the SaranWrap (PVC) cause of 3 reasons..
1. Its very noiseless and flexible.
2. Its relatively easy to glue things to.
3. really easy to get ahold of lol
sreten.. Thanks I get it
I know youre saying this from experience and I acknowledge this. Note Im not doing this because it won't work. I believe it will work good enough for some people (not like us) who don't care for SPL.But here is where I reference this idea from..
I mentioned that I am a carpenter.. I listen to my Pandora (REXRICH RADIO) station at work and I don't use and extra Amplified Speaker to do my listening. From just the tiny line level speaker in the phone I can hear the music from rooms away. I know what song is playing and enjoy it enough for what its worth as do a lot of people these days.
1. So taking this into account I'm building these speakers. Ok so I don't get anymore SPL but with a larger diaphragm I could end up with a better frequency response.
2. If its just not going to work to any satisfaction (and I may anyway) I will add a 5 volt USB Amplifier to the system. Specifically an Amp that could add little more bass also.
No worries I will admit defeat when it there
Your suggestions and others are important in any case and will in the end make a difference. So thanks
im pretty sure, with all these neos , you can still get pretty loud. just take a nice thin magnet to membrame spacing. but i can imagine a 230cm speaker is not verry usefull to go with ur phone if you would make a small panel 30x10 cm i bet it gets loud enough, you could make it push pull as well and gain some spl as well
if you would make a small panel 30x10 cm i bet it gets loud enough, you could make it push pull as well and gain some spl as well@ WrineX .. I checked around and did some measurements:
The smallest wire wires.uk had are 0.005 .. 5x the diameter of the alu wire I've found so far.
The smallest copper wire I can find is 58 awg. To get to 40 ohms it would take 2000cm of wire! haha
Looks like alu is the only option so I hope I can find it.
........................................................................
"230cm speakers" Not sure where you got that size from. Too big for what Im doing here.
"30x10 cm" Well here is the basic size idea.. They need not be bigger than the face of a new style larger phone. So the face size of the speaker would be 16.5 x 9cm
The smallest wire wires.uk had are 0.005 .. 5x the diameter of the alu wire I've found so far.
The smallest copper wire I can find is 58 awg. To get to 40 ohms it would take 2000cm of wire! haha
Looks like alu is the only option so I hope I can find it.
........................................................................
"230cm speakers" Not sure where you got that size from. Too big for what Im doing here.
"30x10 cm" Well here is the basic size idea.. They need not be bigger than the face of a new style larger phone. So the face size of the speaker would be 16.5 x 9cm
sreten.. Thanks I get it
But here is where I reference this idea from..
I mentioned that I am a carpenter.. I listen to my Pandora (REXRICH RADIO) station at work and I don't use and extra Amplified Speaker to do my listening. From just the tiny line level speaker in the phone I can hear the music from rooms away. I know what song is playing and enjoy it enough for what its worth as do a lot of people these days.
1. So taking this into account I'm building these speakers. Ok so I don't get anymore SPL but with a larger diaphragm I could end up with a better frequency response.
2. If its just not going to work to any satisfaction (and I may anyway) I will add a 5 volt USB Amplifier to the system. Specifically an Amp that could add little more bass also.
No worries I will admit defeat when it there
Your suggestions and others are important in any case and will in the end make a difference. So thanks
Hi,
IJMO that the technology to be used is a solution looking for
a problem rather than the other way round, and is not simple.
Anyway good luck with it, though it would not be my approach.
rgds, sreten.
The trouble with better sound is its always hard to go backwards.
sreten thanks..
Quote:
"IJMO that the technology to be used is a solution looking for
a problem rather than the other way round, and is not simple.
Anyway good luck with it, though it would not be my approach.
rgds, sreten.
The trouble with better sound is its always hard to go backwards."
-----------------------------------------------
Can I ask what your approach would be?
No need to go into a lot of detail. Just something to prove your point?
Quote:
"IJMO that the technology to be used is a solution looking for
a problem rather than the other way round, and is not simple.
Anyway good luck with it, though it would not be my approach.
rgds, sreten.
The trouble with better sound is its always hard to go backwards."
-----------------------------------------------
Can I ask what your approach would be?
No need to go into a lot of detail. Just something to prove your point?
Hi,
Well one approach would be USB powered PC speakers with
a MP3/phone 3.5mm input, and a USB connected rechargeable
power pack or a USB wall wart if mains is readily available.
If the latter you can ditch the USB supply and use mains
powered PC speakers to plug the MP3/phone into.
Another approach is a portable rechargeable bluetooth
speaker, even the tiny ones should have much better
bass than a 6" x 3" open panel.
I know the above is not DIY, but the things are impossible
to build for any sensible personal time and cost analysis.
Even if you could get your panel to work its not really the problems
solution. There are simpler, better solutions out there for most folk.
e.g. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WE48SN6?psc=1
What if this absolutely slaughters all your efforts ?
rgds, sreten.
Well one approach would be USB powered PC speakers with
a MP3/phone 3.5mm input, and a USB connected rechargeable
power pack or a USB wall wart if mains is readily available.
If the latter you can ditch the USB supply and use mains
powered PC speakers to plug the MP3/phone into.
Another approach is a portable rechargeable bluetooth
speaker, even the tiny ones should have much better
bass than a 6" x 3" open panel.
I know the above is not DIY, but the things are impossible
to build for any sensible personal time and cost analysis.
Even if you could get your panel to work its not really the problems
solution. There are simpler, better solutions out there for most folk.
e.g. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WE48SN6?psc=1
What if this absolutely slaughters all your efforts ?
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Hi sreten all good points as I see it.
Im not in a competition with the other devices. Reason for that is the market is flooded with every kind and more to come.
But as I mentioned in the beginning I won't out an amp in fact my idea is the same as you've described although Bluetooth can be great but may not need be an option here. Reason ~ there are some other features to the finished system that will reveal themselves once I get closer to the finish.
Bass Box and such things are nice but a different ballgame than this. Note we haven't got to anything yet. This thing is in parts on the floor (Till I find my wire).. You must know how things grow and its right. I want you and others to stick with and see what we can deliver out of this and on.
Why start where everyone else is when other avenues will be found in new frontiers: Rexrich
Im not in a competition with the other devices. Reason for that is the market is flooded with every kind and more to come.
But as I mentioned in the beginning I won't out an amp in fact my idea is the same as you've described although Bluetooth can be great but may not need be an option here. Reason ~ there are some other features to the finished system that will reveal themselves once I get closer to the finish.
Bass Box and such things are nice but a different ballgame than this. Note we haven't got to anything yet. This thing is in parts on the floor (Till I find my wire).. You must know how things grow and its right. I want you and others to stick with and see what we can deliver out of this and on.
Why start where everyone else is when other avenues will be found in new frontiers: Rexrich
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