Just completed my PP KT88 power amps and hooked them to the bass panels of my MG1.6 speakers.
My system now is as follows:-
Speakers :Magnepan MG1.6QR's with stock crossovers removed and panels reversed (listening through perforated end).
Amps - PP UL KT88's for bass and Dynaco ST70 clone for mid/highs
Behringer DCX
Behringer DEQ, fed from a Dell PC running Media Monkey
The systems sounds great without any major adjustments. I am crossing over at 754Hz - done by ear.
Questions...
Can anyone recommend a measuring system for response, phase etc - is REW a good bet for panel speakers?
My system now is as follows:-
Speakers :Magnepan MG1.6QR's with stock crossovers removed and panels reversed (listening through perforated end).
Amps - PP UL KT88's for bass and Dynaco ST70 clone for mid/highs
Behringer DCX
Behringer DEQ, fed from a Dell PC running Media Monkey
The systems sounds great without any major adjustments. I am crossing over at 754Hz - done by ear.
Questions...
Can anyone recommend a measuring system for response, phase etc - is REW a good bet for panel speakers?
Speakers like these measure quite poorly. That's why Magnepan never releases frequency response curves. Even Stereophile won't publish them.
Not really. Such a large radiating source ensures erratic phase cancellations that vary considerably with frequency and position.
I'm sure that someone in diyAudio has measured similar speakers, maybe they can post their results. Of course, how the measurements are done affects the results as well.
Some kind of heavy averaging would have to be used to get a viewable graph. I did find some sample graphs.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/magnepan-mmg-speaker-system-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg16qr-loudspeaker-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements
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I wouldn't say they measure "poorly"......they're just...difficult...to measure. 
To really measure a set of 1.6's, I would suggest taking them outside (or a large indoor area), tipping them over on their sides (tweeter side down) and performing a ground-plane measurement from a few meters.
I know that seems like a silly exercise, but it will work well.
Cheers,
Dave.
To really measure a set of 1.6's, I would suggest taking them outside (or a large indoor area), tipping them over on their sides (tweeter side down) and performing a ground-plane measurement from a few meters.
I know that seems like a silly exercise, but it will work well.
Cheers,
Dave.
Thanks for the tip Dave - my Basement will have to do for now. It's already 26 deg F (-3 deg C) outside...
BTW, I did some serious listening last night and WOW! - the active bi-amp mod is a huge improvement on my existing Peter Gunn passive crossover. There is a clear separation between individual instruments and I could really get a feel for the interplay between close harmony instruments.
BTW, I did some serious listening last night and WOW! - the active bi-amp mod is a huge improvement on my existing Peter Gunn passive crossover. There is a clear separation between individual instruments and I could really get a feel for the interplay between close harmony instruments.
I agree that my observations are highly subjective and non-scientific - I suppose the big question is "can I live with the active setup" - I've been a Maggie user since the mid 80's and even though I've tried other speakers from time to time, I always grudgingly go back to these panels.
I've had the Gunned crossover version since the beginning of 2012 and found them to be quite enjoyable - the active crossover appears a step up again but this is purely in my subjective opinion and I may well decide to go back to the Gunned version soon.
I'll try to rig up a test during the Christmas break and see if my attempt to emulate Stereophile measured the stock crossover curves make acoustic sense.
BTW, I found this thread on the MUG site
I've had the Gunned crossover version since the beginning of 2012 and found them to be quite enjoyable - the active crossover appears a step up again but this is purely in my subjective opinion and I may well decide to go back to the Gunned version soon.
I'll try to rig up a test during the Christmas break and see if my attempt to emulate Stereophile measured the stock crossover curves make acoustic sense.
BTW, I found this thread on the MUG site
I think the big question for folks who have transitioned to a well-designed active setup is....."can I ever go back to the stock setup?"
It's an inherently superior way to drive electromotive transducers and, if everything is done correctly, will always yield superior reproduction.
Cheers,
Dave.
It's an inherently superior way to drive electromotive transducers and, if everything is done correctly, will always yield superior reproduction.
Cheers,
Dave.
IME all large area dipole speakers measure poorly (compared to a simple sealed box, for example), even though they might sound great. Indoors if you move the mic a bit the measurements change completely. Outdoors you can get an "accurate" measurement (using ground plane measurement as described earlier), but that ignores all the reflected energy that one gets in-room. So that's kind of a waste of time IMHO.
So my approach is to start by getting things to sound nice by ear. You'll invariably find some things to like and some things not. Pull out the mic and measure to see what's weird in the spectrum that doesn't sound right and work on that (DSP is pretty much indispensable for this). Continue iterating. At some point you'll probably be happy.
Then, under no circumstances should you move (i.e. new house or listening room) as you'll be just about starting from scratch. Large panel dipoles can, IMHO, sound much better than boxes of any size. But they are the most sensitive to the room they are in. If you are a renter and move house regularly, small boxes (probably controlled directivity designs) are probably a better choice...
So my approach is to start by getting things to sound nice by ear. You'll invariably find some things to like and some things not. Pull out the mic and measure to see what's weird in the spectrum that doesn't sound right and work on that (DSP is pretty much indispensable for this). Continue iterating. At some point you'll probably be happy.
Then, under no circumstances should you move (i.e. new house or listening room) as you'll be just about starting from scratch. Large panel dipoles can, IMHO, sound much better than boxes of any size. But they are the most sensitive to the room they are in. If you are a renter and move house regularly, small boxes (probably controlled directivity designs) are probably a better choice...
It's really not a waste of time because it allows to see the response of the speaker sans in-room reverberation. That, at least, yields a consistent measurement, of sorts, that might be comparable to anechoic/freefield measurements from other speakers.
However, I take your point. You might have to perform extensive iteration to yield a decent in-room response.
They're just challenging to measure objectively for the average guy.....there's no two ways about it.
Dave.
However, I take your point. You might have to perform extensive iteration to yield a decent in-room response.
They're just challenging to measure objectively for the average guy.....there's no two ways about it.
Dave.
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