Class AB, its a cheap match for ESL 57 and very cheap and plentiful in the UK. Its not the last word in HiFi (sugden are better in my opinion) but it does work nicely.
I have a stacked pair of 57s by Wayne Picquet in Orlando, Florida.
I originally used a pair of the latest Quad amps with good success.
I prefer the sound of tubes, however, so I had a friend of mine who is a tube genius modify a Jadis Defy 7. He adjusted the amp to one ohm and it drives the Quad 57s nicely. I had to change the name from Jadis to Readon Defy 7. He extensively modified and upgraded all of the parts etc. I do not pretend to know the details... it is wonderful.
Sources: Meridian CD, Oppo SACD, MacBook Pro with various digital processors, Grado Platinum cartridge
TLE in Florida and North Carolina
I originally used a pair of the latest Quad amps with good success.
I prefer the sound of tubes, however, so I had a friend of mine who is a tube genius modify a Jadis Defy 7. He adjusted the amp to one ohm and it drives the Quad 57s nicely. I had to change the name from Jadis to Readon Defy 7. He extensively modified and upgraded all of the parts etc. I do not pretend to know the details... it is wonderful.
Sources: Meridian CD, Oppo SACD, MacBook Pro with various digital processors, Grado Platinum cartridge
TLE in Florida and North Carolina
Hi all,
I saw this thread and thought to tell about my ESL system.
I have a pair of triple stacked Quad ESLs. They are mounted in custom built frames in curved arrangement with listening distance of 3.5 meters. For rigidity, they are supported tightly between ceiling and floor. They are driven with 3 Transcendent Sound T16 OTL stereo power amplifiers, so each speaker has it's own amplification. OTL's are connected in parallel to Transcendent Grounded Grip preamp. In addition, the lowest frequencies are produced with two closed 350 litres subs with 8 x 12'' Peerless drivers and Hypex plate amps.
I have gradually developed the system from a single pair and added additional amplification. The speakers are refurbished by myself, thanks to material/parts and help from Gary Jacobson and Arend-Jan.
After several years of upgrading I now feel there is nothing to change and everything sounds as I want them to sound.
I saw this thread and thought to tell about my ESL system.
I have a pair of triple stacked Quad ESLs. They are mounted in custom built frames in curved arrangement with listening distance of 3.5 meters. For rigidity, they are supported tightly between ceiling and floor. They are driven with 3 Transcendent Sound T16 OTL stereo power amplifiers, so each speaker has it's own amplification. OTL's are connected in parallel to Transcendent Grounded Grip preamp. In addition, the lowest frequencies are produced with two closed 350 litres subs with 8 x 12'' Peerless drivers and Hypex plate amps.
I have gradually developed the system from a single pair and added additional amplification. The speakers are refurbished by myself, thanks to material/parts and help from Gary Jacobson and Arend-Jan.
After several years of upgrading I now feel there is nothing to change and everything sounds as I want them to sound.
Attachments
I tried first a vertical arrangement, but it sounded a bit treble shy. Concaved seemed to be a logical solution to reduce dispersion of highs. The measured response at the listening spot looks nice indeed.
Reading through this post the most common opinion here is that stacking a pair of quads in a concaved Arc is best. But the mark Levinson system, OneThingAudio opinion, and Peter Walkers own sketch of stacked quads in the recommended speed frame are all using a convexed Arc.
So why the sudden change in recent years ?
surely these people also had measuring equipment to determin whats best ?
Regards
So why the sudden change in recent years ?
surely these people also had measuring equipment to determin whats best ?
Regards
The problems i had with quads were that they would not play out enough... and especially in the bass... the panels would arc over and burn the conductor off the film... and the sensitivity would drop. I ended up crossing over to a sub. I used the quads mostly for mid-hi range. I never tried stacking them. But then Quad came out with a newer design (latest) and that issue has not happened with me since then. But still use sub to extend the bass.
Thx-RNMarsh
Thx-RNMarsh
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The Quads may lose some of the coherence using them stacked. I found they never delivered enough power in the treble or the bass for which I used a bass woofer 18 Fane in a sealed box. Asymptotic roll off in the treble approaching 18KHz, the stacked Quads.
The trouble is you cannot get the dynamic power with panel speakers period. The diaphragm has to rely on the stiffness of the voltage and air damping. Dynamic speakers will deliver more exciting dynamics albeit with slightly more distortion. The ELS 57 is probably best for the broad midrange vocal stuff.
I still retain my ELS57's as a mid range reference because of the lovely tone
When refurbished and deburred 57's have no issues with drive, arcing is very rare and unbelievable levels are obtained when stacked ...
I use Sugden class A after I had the Quad303/33 Class AB set up. Sugden was clearly better but liable to blow output transistors. Quad 57s drive well from a big Krell type of amp but less 3D sound, unless modded to give better overall depth
your problem is that you got wrong amps to drive quad 57
I have a pair of stacked ESL57s using ML design. When I drive them with my home made push pull tube amp (16ohm output impedence driving serial connected pair of 57s) I feel too much base! When I drive 57s with my 8w single-ended triode amps, I feel missing bottom end (too clean). The best match is my home made parallel singled-ended 6528 amp which produced most balanced sound I ever hear beside my heavily modified Infinity speakers.
I have a pair of stacked ESL57s using ML design. When I drive them with my home made push pull tube amp (16ohm output impedence driving serial connected pair of 57s) I feel too much base! When I drive 57s with my 8w single-ended triode amps, I feel missing bottom end (too clean). The best match is my home made parallel singled-ended 6528 amp which produced most balanced sound I ever hear beside my heavily modified Infinity speakers.
I put together a stacked Quad few years ago. I tried few supertweeter covered 7Khz up (Decca as ML, Fountek ribbon, Aurum Cantus and few others), and finally settled on 5 RTR ESL panels per side. The RTR matched really well with the Quad, without them the Quad seemed roll off (due to aged, or amplifier that could not handled the 1 ohm hf load). The staked Quad/RTR can be driven with one amp using an I30 passive xover, or bi-amp (with a SE 6C33).
I have tried quite a few amp that I can get my hand on, OTL (NYAL OTL 3B), SE (845, 211, 250TL, 6C33C...), PP (845, KT66, GU50) , solid state (ML, Krell..).... I found that the Stacked Quads worked best with SE amp with 15watts or more. I finally settled on a SE 211 20W that I have built, matched with the stacked Quad, the system have no major shortcoming, and I can spend hours and hours of music enjoyment.
Considering the Quad that I have (bronze circa 1959, black circa 1978) are pretty reliable, the only thing I change was the diodes in the PS on the bronze, which is over 50 years old!
I have tried quite a few amp that I can get my hand on, OTL (NYAL OTL 3B), SE (845, 211, 250TL, 6C33C...), PP (845, KT66, GU50) , solid state (ML, Krell..).... I found that the Stacked Quads worked best with SE amp with 15watts or more. I finally settled on a SE 211 20W that I have built, matched with the stacked Quad, the system have no major shortcoming, and I can spend hours and hours of music enjoyment.
Considering the Quad that I have (bronze circa 1959, black circa 1978) are pretty reliable, the only thing I change was the diodes in the PS on the bronze, which is over 50 years old!
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Nice post. I have not run my SE845 20/20 watts into the Quad 57 (revised) I will try this when I get time. In a smaller secondroom these did not need to be a doubled stack. My main room is much bigger and would have benefited with stacked units.
Interesting that you have ended up SE211 20W which is where I am at but 845 instead. At present I like the sound through a TQWT but the Quad stacks with SE211 IMO would be better esp for mid and treble.
Do you know how the stages on the SE211 are coupled. This can make a difference. Do you have a circuit diagram forthis amp Email if you wish.
My solid state amp is as good as it gets. Not sure which I prefer.
This SE 211 used VT25 as input tube and driver tube. I also have couple 845 SE, but with different driving circuit, they also sound pretty good with the Quads. Another amp I also like is the WE212. You can read about the SE 211 here:
Custom 845 monos w/ Tango transformers
Custom 845 monos w/ Tango transformers
How much does it cost to rebuild a pair of ESL57? Why arching is no longer a concern? Is it duetu adding protection circuit?
Arcing is a concern if you do not add some form of a protection circuit on the treble panel. The conductive portions of the treble stators are about 1/16" apart, depending on construction, the treble panels will arc at about 3200 volts. There isn't really anything you can do to change that fact, shy of massive speaker redesign. You may be able to coat the inside of the panel with conformal coating and slightly raise it, but you'll only get a dB or so.
The actual arcing point is a function of humidity, panel construction tolerances and slew rate of the signal.
To repeat, arcing is only no longer a concern if you have some sort of circuit that clamps the treble panel voltage below the arc threshold. This is independent of rebuilding of the panels.
Sheldon
Bass panel protection
The protection circuit is for tweeter panel only. What about bass panel?
I did notice that some bass panel can also get damaged too.
Thanks.
The protection circuit is for tweeter panel only. What about bass panel?
I did notice that some bass panel can also get damaged too.
Thanks.
Arching only happens on old panels, have the panels rebuilt by a competent person and arching is a thing of the past, no need for clamping ...
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