I see what your saying about the woofers... I am still thinking about adding them just to get the levels up with the small amp. One channel for the maggie one for something else that will compliment it. What do you think about that? Would a different small speaker like a regular woofer or a small full range be better to add?
THanks
THanks
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Listen to those who know....those 3" Tang Band "subs" will do NOTHING for the Maggies. They not add any significant amount of bass and they will not keep up SLP wise either. If you want more bass, you need real woofers in boxes or even bigger woofers run open baffle. Think 10"+, OK?
When I had my MMGs I used a pair of 12" woofers per side in an open baffle and even then, they added maybe 20hz of solid extension to the Maggies.
From the suggestions you've made, it's obvious you're a newbie and that's great. I love it when new people start to discover quality sound. It can be a rewarding, lifelong hobby for sure. Slow down a bit before unwisely spend money on a scheme that will not work. Enjoy the Maggies for a while as is. Continue to research and learn about proven upgrades and ways to add bass.
Greg
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IMHO no 3" woofer is worth $70.
Your Best bet would be to Get a real woofer that cost half that are a good quality one for about the same price.
Or a super nice Woofer for the cost of your anticipated project using those 3" ones.
Even 6 or 8 X 6's can get you some decent bass and clean in a line source Dipole configuration.
Even these might be a better place to start if you used a lot of them say 8 of them per side,
Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer 299-030
MCM has an 8" sub for a very reasonable price and has a high excursion.
I have been wanting to get some of these for a dipole bass system myself,
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
There are some very nice Dayton drivers as well and they start at about double the price and more.
I used to have 6 radio shack 6's in a open box (dipole) arranged in a 2X3 and it filled a room quite nicely just by itself with a 150 watt amp.
I used it for one of my bass guitar rigs and it held its own outside very well too.
I had more fun with it by just sweeping 10HZ to 50HZ test tones through it, as it was very clean sounding.
This was back in the 90's before I had any sound measuring equipment other than a radio shack SPL meter and 106db to 108db was about all I could get out of it for the low frequency's.
But it was low, flat, and very clean sound.
This would be more than enough for a set of Maggie's.
Have even listened to them yet?
You may find that you might be happy with how they sound depending on your listening room and placement of the speakers.
I have a set of Apogee Duette's and they go very low and are transparent but they are not designed to rock out to anything bass heavy.
In fact I had to repair the voice coil (it stopped working) on one of the bass panels due to the kids playing Hip Hop stuff through them.
They are not designed for with that type of music in mind.
You need to add a decent woofer system to be able to do that and the little 3 inchers just will not cut it either, for any type of music.
Those were designed for a small desktop computer speaker or something of that nature , and, they won't be able to do anything much less than about 40Hz.
At 40hz and below even 3 or 4 of them will be shooting the voice coils across the room with a smoke trail.
And the very high excursion will just add noise and distortion to your beautifully clean sound coming from the maggie's
Spend your money on a decent amp as Gootee had mentioned listen to them and then decide on a woofer system should you find that you need one.
15 watts will not properly drive these speakers and you will either be replacing one of the voice coil's or the amp soon if it doesn't blow from being run in to clipping more than it should.
FWIW
jer
Your Best bet would be to Get a real woofer that cost half that are a good quality one for about the same price.
Or a super nice Woofer for the cost of your anticipated project using those 3" ones.
Even 6 or 8 X 6's can get you some decent bass and clean in a line source Dipole configuration.
Even these might be a better place to start if you used a lot of them say 8 of them per side,
Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer 299-030
MCM has an 8" sub for a very reasonable price and has a high excursion.
I have been wanting to get some of these for a dipole bass system myself,
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
There are some very nice Dayton drivers as well and they start at about double the price and more.
I used to have 6 radio shack 6's in a open box (dipole) arranged in a 2X3 and it filled a room quite nicely just by itself with a 150 watt amp.
I used it for one of my bass guitar rigs and it held its own outside very well too.
I had more fun with it by just sweeping 10HZ to 50HZ test tones through it, as it was very clean sounding.
This was back in the 90's before I had any sound measuring equipment other than a radio shack SPL meter and 106db to 108db was about all I could get out of it for the low frequency's.
But it was low, flat, and very clean sound.
This would be more than enough for a set of Maggie's.
Have even listened to them yet?
You may find that you might be happy with how they sound depending on your listening room and placement of the speakers.
I have a set of Apogee Duette's and they go very low and are transparent but they are not designed to rock out to anything bass heavy.
In fact I had to repair the voice coil (it stopped working) on one of the bass panels due to the kids playing Hip Hop stuff through them.
They are not designed for with that type of music in mind.
You need to add a decent woofer system to be able to do that and the little 3 inchers just will not cut it either, for any type of music.
Those were designed for a small desktop computer speaker or something of that nature , and, they won't be able to do anything much less than about 40Hz.
At 40hz and below even 3 or 4 of them will be shooting the voice coils across the room with a smoke trail.
And the very high excursion will just add noise and distortion to your beautifully clean sound coming from the maggie's
Spend your money on a decent amp as Gootee had mentioned listen to them and then decide on a woofer system should you find that you need one.
15 watts will not properly drive these speakers and you will either be replacing one of the voice coil's or the amp soon if it doesn't blow from being run in to clipping more than it should.
FWIW
jer
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Magneplanars are exotic in the UK and germany, while Quad electrostatics are much more common, so my advice may be very wrong
I would suggest that building subwoofers is a large effort.
I must admit I like the idea of open baffle subwoofers but never got around to it yet.
My subwoofer story with the electrostatics was initially disapointing. I thought my efforts where boomy and poor. The sealed subwoofers seemed to ruin the Quad ESL 63's when played together. After some time I decided that the subwoofers go to ebay and I will live with limited bass as this is well known that its hard to integrate subwoofers with electrostatic speakers.
The truth was I had made my own active crossover, that sits between the preamplifier (again my own textbook design as I am not a pro electronics guy) and power amplifer, and give one amplifier for the Electrostatics and one for the Subwoofers. I had not sorted out the power supplies well enough in my home built preamp and in the active crossover. Many months later (As I did not realise these issues where related), after I had fixed the power supplies I retested the subwoofers (as they where on thier way to Ebay) and now I am very happy with the bass (and no one is getting these subwoofers unless I make a nicer box) and it does not ditract from the electrostatics sound. I am using just a 2nd order high and low pass filters set at 100hz, with the ability to adjust levels to match the speakers.
Im using 2 boxes one under each ESL 63, with 10" subwoofers, Peerless SDS model and these produce the best bass I have ever had. This said the box is hudge about 80L (with the drivers, bracing etc takign about 10 L from total of 90L) and enough bracing to make a volvo worry. I am convinced that one of the reasons I like these speakers is the effort spent clamping and glueing all the bracing.
Honestly a subwoofer is a lot of work, the music tracks that benifit are few but it does stop you worrying about listenting the internet where people often mix silly amounts of Bass in especially some review sites, and Movie explosions can be a little scary, as you wonder if your neighbors are going to fogive you after that explosion.
Ok I admit it, much to my suprise Im not a bass head
Good luck
Owen
I would suggest that building subwoofers is a large effort.
I must admit I like the idea of open baffle subwoofers but never got around to it yet.
My subwoofer story with the electrostatics was initially disapointing. I thought my efforts where boomy and poor. The sealed subwoofers seemed to ruin the Quad ESL 63's when played together. After some time I decided that the subwoofers go to ebay and I will live with limited bass as this is well known that its hard to integrate subwoofers with electrostatic speakers.
The truth was I had made my own active crossover, that sits between the preamplifier (again my own textbook design as I am not a pro electronics guy) and power amplifer, and give one amplifier for the Electrostatics and one for the Subwoofers. I had not sorted out the power supplies well enough in my home built preamp and in the active crossover. Many months later (As I did not realise these issues where related), after I had fixed the power supplies I retested the subwoofers (as they where on thier way to Ebay) and now I am very happy with the bass (and no one is getting these subwoofers unless I make a nicer box) and it does not ditract from the electrostatics sound. I am using just a 2nd order high and low pass filters set at 100hz, with the ability to adjust levels to match the speakers.
Im using 2 boxes one under each ESL 63, with 10" subwoofers, Peerless SDS model and these produce the best bass I have ever had. This said the box is hudge about 80L (with the drivers, bracing etc takign about 10 L from total of 90L) and enough bracing to make a volvo worry. I am convinced that one of the reasons I like these speakers is the effort spent clamping and glueing all the bracing.
Honestly a subwoofer is a lot of work, the music tracks that benifit are few but it does stop you worrying about listenting the internet where people often mix silly amounts of Bass in especially some review sites, and Movie explosions can be a little scary, as you wonder if your neighbors are going to fogive you after that explosion.
Ok I admit it, much to my suprise Im not a bass head
Good luck
Owen
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Yes. I suggest what you need to do is take their "socks" off, so you can understand how they are put together. (Plenty of information about doing this in the Planar Asylum archives.)
If you can't be bothered to do this, get a bright torch and shine it on the sock material - you should then be able to see the (different thickness) wires on the mylar, underneath.
Regards,
Andy
If you just cut it off, you probably won't be able to re-use it. However, if you are going to put them horizontal then you probably will want to make up some different socks ... as the bottom of the frame will be visible at either the inner or the outer side, and this looks ugly (many, many staples holding the sock on).
If you remove the socks, you may be able to re-use them - although it will still look ugly due to having all the staples at the bottom of the frame (in your case, the side). What I would do, if I was going to place them horizontal, is make up a new, wide sock - so the staples which fix it were on the long side of the frame (which is down).
To remove the sock:
1. take off the T-feet
2. undo the screws which hold the aluminium back-plate onto the frame and lift the material outside the back-plate
3. turn the panels upside down so the staples at the base are visible
4. use a flat-bladed screw driver to remove all the staples
5. turn the Maggies the right way up and lift the sock off the frame.
Regards,
Andy
I'd leave the socks on, install them in the room as previously suggested and per Magnepan recommendations and listen to them. (Your table proposal is likely to result in very poor imaging due to early reflections off of the table surface, as well as a probable hole in the middle.) If you are using them nearfield you probably will not need much more power than you have, and if you do there are a number of amps out there that ought to work well.
I've owned the MG-1.4 and the MG-1.7QR and liked both a great deal before running off to low powered SE amplifiers and large Onkens.
The bass from a properly set up pair of Magnepans is rather hard to beat even the SMGA should be pretty good in that respect.
Just listen first..
I've owned the MG-1.4 and the MG-1.7QR and liked both a great deal before running off to low powered SE amplifiers and large Onkens.
The bass from a properly set up pair of Magnepans is rather hard to beat even the SMGA should be pretty good in that respect.
Just listen first..
Finally! I think that you will be quite amazed, and extremely pleased, and will start to greatly respect them, just as they are.
And if you were going to spend $70 on something, you could go $90 or so and get a nice used Adcom GFA-535 II power amplifier from ebay. They're rated at 60 W into 8 Ohms so will probably do 100 W or so into 4 Ohms. They are not quite what most people would call high-end but I could dispute that, and at any rate you simply can't go wrong, for the price. They are basically bullet-proof and brilliantly clean-sounding. I used one for a week or two with my MG-12/QR speakers and was very impressed. (If you watch ebay, you might even be able to get a GFA-545 or 545 II for not much more.
With your SMGAs, remember to play with the distance from the wall, and the distance between the speakers, and the toe-in angle, and the listening position location. An equilateral triangle formed by speakers and listener is probably a good first guess, with each speaker 1/3 of the way across the room, in both directions, i.e. 1/3 of the way from wall behind them to wall bnehind you, and 1/3 of the way from the side wall to the other side wall. That's not always possible but at least try to center them in the room, left/right-wise.
And if you were going to spend $70 on something, you could go $90 or so and get a nice used Adcom GFA-535 II power amplifier from ebay. They're rated at 60 W into 8 Ohms so will probably do 100 W or so into 4 Ohms. They are not quite what most people would call high-end but I could dispute that, and at any rate you simply can't go wrong, for the price. They are basically bullet-proof and brilliantly clean-sounding. I used one for a week or two with my MG-12/QR speakers and was very impressed. (If you watch ebay, you might even be able to get a GFA-545 or 545 II for not much more.
With your SMGAs, remember to play with the distance from the wall, and the distance between the speakers, and the toe-in angle, and the listening position location. An equilateral triangle formed by speakers and listener is probably a good first guess, with each speaker 1/3 of the way across the room, in both directions, i.e. 1/3 of the way from wall behind them to wall bnehind you, and 1/3 of the way from the side wall to the other side wall. That's not always possible but at least try to center them in the room, left/right-wise.
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Bad speakers , when done right dynamic speakers are the most accurate for bass ....
Sorry ..
2.5 watt , maggies, ample headroom , 
...Magneplanars are exotic in the UK and germany, while Quad electrostatics are much more common, so my advice may be very wrong
I would suggest that building subwoofers is a large effort.
I must admit I like the idea of open baffle subwoofers but never got around to it yet.
My subwoofer story with the electrostatics was initially disapointing. I thought my efforts where boomy and poor. The sealed subwoofers seemed to ruin the Quad ESL 63's when played together. After some time I decided that the subwoofers go to ebay and I will live with limited bass as this is well known that its hard to integrate subwoofers with electrostatic speakers.
The truth was I had made my own active crossover, that sits between the preamplifier (again my own textbook design as I am not a pro electronics guy) and power amplifer, and give one amplifier for the Electrostatics and one for the Subwoofers. I had not sorted out the power supplies well enough in my home built preamp and in the active crossover. Many months later (As I did not realise these issues where related), after I had fixed the power supplies I retested the subwoofers (as they where on thier way to Ebay) and now I am very happy with the bass (and no one is getting these subwoofers unless I make a nicer box) and it does not ditract from the electrostatics sound. I am using just a 2nd order high and low pass filters set at 100hz, with the ability to adjust levels to match the speakers.
Im using 2 boxes one under each ESL 63, with 10" subwoofers, Peerless SDS model and these produce the best bass I have ever had. This said the box is hudge about 80L (with the drivers, bracing etc takign about 10 L from total of 90L) and enough bracing to make a volvo worry. I am convinced that one of the reasons I like these speakers is the effort spent clamping and glueing all the bracing.
Honestly a subwoofer is a lot of work, the music tracks that benifit are few but it does stop you worrying about listenting the internet where people often mix silly amounts of Bass in especially some review sites, and Movie explosions can be a little scary, as you wonder if your neighbors are going to fogive you after that explosion.
Ok I admit it, much to my suprise Im not a bass head
Good luck
Owen
Sealed enclosures are the absolute worst to mate with dipoles .....
Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.....
Take the socks off...seriously? Just to find the tweeter side? For someone just getting acquainted with this stuff? Come on guys, let's be a little realistic. The flashlight trick will do just fine to find the tweeter side.
About 3" of one side will look different from the rest. That's the tweeter. You can see that from this photo WITH the grill on.
http://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/493519-2012_vintage_magnepan_mmgs_wblack_socks_oak_trim.jpg
Just hook them up the way they were intended and use them for a while. See if you like it.
Greg
Take the socks off...seriously? Just to find the tweeter side? For someone just getting acquainted with this stuff? Come on guys, let's be a little realistic. The flashlight trick will do just fine to find the tweeter side.
About 3" of one side will look different from the rest. That's the tweeter. You can see that from this photo WITH the grill on.
http://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/493519-2012_vintage_magnepan_mmgs_wblack_socks_oak_trim.jpg
Just hook them up the way they were intended and use them for a while. See if you like it.
Greg
a.wayne,
If you read much more carefully, I said they are "very, very good". And the 2Ce are widely-acknowledged as such, even compared to speakers that are 5X their price, but insanely-so in their used-price range. I was only pointing out a very-subtle difference.
And apparently, then, no one has ever done a "dynamic" speaker right. (Did you mean "cone" or "voice coil" or "box"?) They all seem to have resonances that aren't supposed to exist in the source. Many people love them. I love them. But that doesn't mean they're the most accurate. On what data do you base that claim?
Tom
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