I know this title sounds bizarre up to the point of mental but there are neo-bar magnets on sale for about 10 cents a piece. For a while I had this idea of making several columns sharing adjacent magnets and running the driver up and down in series. These magnets are going insanely fast, I need to decide in the coming week. It could end up being paired to a sub in a 2-way hybrid configuration, but the idea initially is to make it large enough to make a transformer completely obsolete, so 4-8 ohms load. Would anyone be willing to brainstorm on this with me? I need second opinions. All in all I could still use the magnets in a la-foila esque speaker design and spare the time having to break my head over a custom design.
Is it a good idea to build a (probably in-efficient) full ranger and also having to EQ the **** out of it, /discuss.
Is it a good idea to build a (probably in-efficient) full ranger and also having to EQ the **** out of it, /discuss.
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Magnets are good. 
You have two choices:
- pure ribbon
- printed ribbon
With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
The likelyhood of making a "full range" single ribbon of either type is essentially zero. So you are into at minimum a two-way system.
Like many others that you doubtless have seen.
Worst case you can do a decent tall ribbon HF or mid/high range. Using either method.
It's a fun project, and if the magnets are strong enough and cheap enough, it should work ok...
worst case you can stick up a lot of stuff on your refrigerator.
You have two choices:
- pure ribbon
- printed ribbon
With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
The likelyhood of making a "full range" single ribbon of either type is essentially zero. So you are into at minimum a two-way system.
Like many others that you doubtless have seen.
Worst case you can do a decent tall ribbon HF or mid/high range. Using either method.
It's a fun project, and if the magnets are strong enough and cheap enough, it should work ok...
worst case you can stick up a lot of stuff on your refrigerator.
Check the patents issued by Magnepan.
for example:
https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:magnepan&num=10
for example:
https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:magnepan&num=10
Check, the magnets are pretty powerful, the dimensions are not very large: 10mm in it's widest, I'm no expert on planar's or ribbons but that tells me I have about half a centimeter per side, I tested a ribbon before with magnets of similar dimensions and got no real issues with it. I'm not looking for the perfect magnet dimensions though, mainly just looking for a fun project to work on.
I have an idea by what you mean with pure and printed but do you happen to have a source going into detail on this?
Indeed absolute worst case is having a bunch of magnets sitting around collecting dust but I plan on designing it in such a way that I will not have to glue them so I can go about prototyping with it.
Again just brainstorming on this but is using ordinary kitchen foil a good idea, me-thinks that using a thicker foil could improve power handling. Also, I should have added that I plan on making it a dipole and perhaps boxing the sub underneath it, kinda like a martin logan knockoff.
I have an idea by what you mean with pure and printed but do you happen to have a source going into detail on this?
Indeed absolute worst case is having a bunch of magnets sitting around collecting dust but I plan on designing it in such a way that I will not have to glue them so I can go about prototyping with it.
Again just brainstorming on this but is using ordinary kitchen foil a good idea, me-thinks that using a thicker foil could improve power handling. Also, I should have added that I plan on making it a dipole and perhaps boxing the sub underneath it, kinda like a martin logan knockoff.
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You need to make it a planar in order to reach low frequencies, that is - the "ribbon" must be fixed to a frame on all edges. A true ribbon will not reach low frequencies because of the acoustic cancellation around the ribbon itself. That is why both Magnepan and Apogee speakers have ribbon tweeters, but planar mid/woofers.
>You have two choices:
>- pure ribbon
>- printed ribbon
>
>With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
>With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
Narrjhhhhh, you can also do with a serial resistor and pure ribbon. I have made a ribbon 180cm high, 1.7 cm wide. Supplied with a serial resistor (2.1 ohm) made of the same aluminium foil I use for ribbon, glued on stif paper.... super
My amp play clear and powerfull in this load, and
they can play all that loud I needed
Cheers Jan
>- pure ribbon
>- printed ribbon
>
>With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
>With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
Narrjhhhhh, you can also do with a serial resistor and pure ribbon. I have made a ribbon 180cm high, 1.7 cm wide. Supplied with a serial resistor (2.1 ohm) made of the same aluminium foil I use for ribbon, glued on stif paper.... super
My amp play clear and powerfull in this load, and
they can play all that loud I needed
Cheers Jan
Yes or common speakers. In my system I have 6 pcx 12" and the ribbon mentioned above pr. side. I active cut between those two about 350 hz 12/24 db/oct...
>You have two choices:
>- pure ribbon
>- printed ribbon
>
>With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
>With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
Narrjhhhhh, you can also do with a serial resistor and pure ribbon. I have made a ribbon 180cm high, 1.7 cm wide. Supplied with a serial resistor (2.1 ohm) made of the same aluminium foil I use for ribbon, glued on stif paper.... super
My amp play clear and powerfull in this load, and
they can play all that loud I needed
Cheers Jan
>- pure ribbon
>- printed ribbon
>
>With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
>With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
Narrjhhhhh, you can also do with a serial resistor and pure ribbon. I have made a ribbon 180cm high, 1.7 cm wide. Supplied with a serial resistor (2.1 ohm) made of the same aluminium foil I use for ribbon, glued on stif paper.... super
My amp play clear and powerfull in this load, and
they can play all that loud I needed
Cheers Jan
@OP, where are you getting Neo's at that price ...
Agree series resistor much better than transformer , but 2ohm is killing alot of the sensitivity , are you using neo's ..
>You have two choices:
>- pure ribbon
>- printed ribbon
>
>With a pure ribbon you need a transformer or a very special amplifier.
>With a printed ribbon you don't need a transformer (probably).
Narrjhhhhh, you can also do with a serial resistor and pure ribbon. I have made a ribbon 180cm high, 1.7 cm wide. Supplied with a serial resistor (2.1 ohm) made of the same aluminium foil I use for ribbon, glued on stif paper.... super
My amp play clear and powerfull in this load, and
they can play all that loud I needed
Cheers Jan
Agree series resistor much better than transformer , but 2ohm is killing alot of the sensitivity , are you using neo's ..
Yes Neo, and no problem with sensitivity....
My 6 pcx. 12" is just lowered 2db vs. the 180cm ribbon.
Do the math, a resistor is terrible.
It's a voltage divider. Your ribbon is going to be a fraction of an ohm, your resistor as suggested 2+ ohms. Almost all of the power will be eaten in the resistor.
Adding aluminum foil onto paper will add so much mass that the HF response will be not good. Paper will catch fire if you put enough power into the foil itself.
Jacob, if you search here you will find a number of threads on DIY ribbons, ribbon transformers and planar magnetic drivers...
It's a voltage divider. Your ribbon is going to be a fraction of an ohm, your resistor as suggested 2+ ohms. Almost all of the power will be eaten in the resistor.
Adding aluminum foil onto paper will add so much mass that the HF response will be not good. Paper will catch fire if you put enough power into the foil itself.
Jacob, if you search here you will find a number of threads on DIY ribbons, ribbon transformers and planar magnetic drivers...
Hey,
Ribbon or planar at the low end can be dificult. It`s much easyer to build an open baffle with 12" or 15" loudspeakers.
I`ve have tryed with different versions of the "La Folia", and never get it right anyway.
My system now is the best I ever heard. I use Groundsound amps and filters, and can configure everything to my head start to spin
Ribbon or planar at the low end can be dificult. It`s much easyer to build an open baffle with 12" or 15" loudspeakers.
I`ve have tryed with different versions of the "La Folia", and never get it right anyway.
My system now is the best I ever heard. I use Groundsound amps and filters, and can configure everything to my head start to spin
No paper into the gab, just alufoil. I`ve used some household alufoil at about 10my. The resistor is homemade of the same foil and glued onto stif paper, and hide on the back. No fire for sure
Yes, a lot of power is eaten, but who cares! The speaker play very loud anyway. Now, just listen to John Fogerty - lovely
Sure....
http://nordahl-jensen.dk/pic/IMG_0810.JPG
I have not messured the sensitivity, but about 88-90 db/1w I think....
I can modify the freq in almost anyway in my digital filter, and now my system messured 20 - 20.000 (+- 1,5db)
http://nordahl-jensen.dk/pic/IMG_0810.JPG
I have not messured the sensitivity, but about 88-90 db/1w I think....
I can modify the freq in almost anyway in my digital filter, and now my system messured 20 - 20.000 (+- 1,5db)
Yes Neo, and no problem with sensitivity....
My 6 pcx. 12" is just lowered 2db vs. the 180cm ribbon.
88 db with a 2ohm series resistor , dat must be the most powerful neo speaker on the planet ....
Series resistor better than transformer , direct drive is considered better , but i cant see how you could get the amp impedance out of the way , i have found best is matching resistor to foil 2:1 ratio for best drive 3:1 best sonics on most amplifiers i have tried , even the ones rated @ .5 ohm ...
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Blaaberg,
Nice looking ribbon... like a Maggie ribbon or Apogee...
And I disagree about the transformer... unless you special build a power amp with super low output Z for the job... buy you fellows can do as you wish.
Consider that with a 20volt RMS swing, a power amp designed to work into say 0.1 ohms will produce 200 watts! If the ribbon is lower Z then that power will be higher. So one could make a very nice class A bipolar amp with a large number of low cost high current, low voltage output devices having a super low output Z to drive such a ribbon... just a thought.
Nice looking ribbon... like a Maggie ribbon or Apogee...
And I disagree about the transformer... unless you special build a power amp with super low output Z for the job... buy you fellows can do as you wish.
Consider that with a 20volt RMS swing, a power amp designed to work into say 0.1 ohms will produce 200 watts! If the ribbon is lower Z then that power will be higher. So one could make a very nice class A bipolar amp with a large number of low cost high current, low voltage output devices having a super low output Z to drive such a ribbon... just a thought.
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