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raal as supertweeter
raal as supertweeter
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Old 31st January 2013, 02:49 PM   #11
etalon90 is offline etalon90  Canada
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Location: Trenton,On

Not much experience with AMT.

Used some heil maybe 5-6 years ago but ended up preferring the fostex ft17h for my application. (then I used a ob lowther+tweeter+21"subs )

Never used the grand heil or the new mundorf ones.
From graph, I do not like the fact the the AMT doesn't goes very high.
A good ribbon reach 70-100K, amt dies quickly after 25k...

Sound of my ESL improved with additioon of the supertweeter
More to follow as I keep tuning/experimenting the thing.

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Old 2nd February 2013, 06:01 PM   #12
bolserst is offline bolserst  United States
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Originally Posted by TNT View Post
17k? I hope you hear the crickets ?
That reminds me of some measurements I took of the Dalhquist DQ-10 a couple years ago.
The piezo tweeter was crossed over at with 30dB/oct slope at 18kHz.
I'm not sure why they bothered....perhaps the 1970s dome tweeter was missing the top 1/2 octave.

Attached figure shows electrical response at driver terminals.
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File Type: png DQ-10_driver_signals.png (224.3 KB, 193 views)
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:32 PM   #13
etalon90 is offline etalon90  Canada
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So far, tried 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th order on the supertweeter
I like the 4th LR better (in phase with the ESL)

One of my friend liked the 3rd better
2 more person liked the 4th order better
On every slope, we tweaked the position of the tweeter to integrate it the best I could.
With every filter, we tried reverse polarity to confirm wich polarity sounded best.

Everybody that heard my system agreed that the supertweeter improved the sound to some degree. Nobody liked the system better without the tweeter in place.

I ordered more "audiophile parts" for the crossover.

Despite being crossed at 24db/oct at 17.5khz, improvement is really audible.

It not that I hear much more that 17-18Khz.
Impact, soundstage and voice improve with the tweeter in place.
Acoustic guita never sounded that real.
Hard to explain but you just kind of feel it.

Review of supertweeter (townshend or tannoy) explain a bit what happend to the sound
I agree with the reviewer, the supertweeter are keepers...

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Old 7th February 2013, 04:18 AM   #14
studiotech is offline studiotech  United States
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Location: Orlando, FLA
I think you are really wasting some potential of the Raal only using it that high. Try some experiments running it lower. Somewhere around 5-8KHz or so. They are too good to use for essentially no range at all.

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Old 9th February 2013, 11:56 PM   #15
ticknpop is offline ticknpop  Canada
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I have Raven R2 hi pass filtered at about 12db/7 kHz with Martin Logan CLX
( they hang on fishing line half way down and behind the CLX mid /tweeter panel - works well). You want to try high passing into the ribbons from 5 or 7 kHz and trying different frequencies upwards and playing adjusting the level of the ribbon to find what what works best for you. I've thought of trying Raals (maybe this year), let us know how they sound. I agree with Studiotech you are crossing over too high. I've found that a very good ribbon adds top end detail that the electrostatic can't match. I have had over the years the Panasonic and Sequerra ribbons with Dayton Wrights, Deccas with Accoustats and Quad 63's , and Raven R1 with Martin Logan Requests. Mark Levinson crossed into the Deccas at 7 kHz in the HQD system, Dayton Wright at 3 to 5 kHz. Your steep slopes surprise me and the phase comments, at 17khz a wavelength is less than an inch and the ear isn't phase sensitive that high up it's in the midrange that the wavelengths and the size of your head come into play, at low frequencies it's time arrival that determines source, in the mid end phase , and at the top end your less sensitive. Plus a 24 db per octave crossover will have lots of phase shift even if it's in phase at the crossover frequency all the other frequencies will be phase shifted ( unless it's a Bessel high pass filter)
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Last edited by ticknpop; 10th February 2013 at 12:21 AM.
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