better to take the time and learn to build better new panels. any panel you buy today is a very old panel and is not going to be as new. best you can expect from a styrene panel is about 30 years give or take a few years with most panels starting to show signs of degradation between 15 - 20 years of age. the information is out there if you search. some used panels will get you by but all your panels are now old and degraded. your acoustat's can sound better than they did new with fresh panels and you might want to consider switching to a 0ne plus 0ne format for the best possible stage and image.
the first styrene panels I built were 3/8 inch thick grids with kynar wire wrap wire with HS65 diaphragms using Testors non toxic styrene model cement adhesive and they were excellent easily better than the factory units. that was in 1988. it's the only future your speakers have and a good job if you can build them well and do the job cost effectively. lots of owners looking for new panels. best regards Moray James.
the first styrene panels I built were 3/8 inch thick grids with kynar wire wrap wire with HS65 diaphragms using Testors non toxic styrene model cement adhesive and they were excellent easily better than the factory units. that was in 1988. it's the only future your speakers have and a good job if you can build them well and do the job cost effectively. lots of owners looking for new panels. best regards Moray James.
the biggest single issue with old panels aside from loose diaphragms (which is an easy fix) is the degradation of the styrene which is used to encapsulate the stator wires. The styrene slowly breaks down and the wires eventually break loose and shift out of position. You can inspect and repair broken or near to broken joints but it is a large slow process as you must inspect every single joint on each stator and that's a lot of points to check. I know because I have done this more times than I care to remember. Trust me it is easier and better to put the effort into building fresh panels.
Just a general comment on caulking around a panel. It is a very good idea to solvent wash and scrub the sides 100% with paint thinner. This will ensure that you are not encapsulating anything which might be a possible short. Once the caulk in in place you will have a very difficult time dealing with such a problem. I prefer to wash panels clean them and use a layer of heavy poly packing tape. This makes handling safer and it is easy to remove and replace if need be. There is a ton of info on the archive at this site on panel building. After all these years and having built wire screen and perf metal stators I still believe that the wire stator is the most cost effective method to use. Best regards Moray James.
Just a general comment on caulking around a panel. It is a very good idea to solvent wash and scrub the sides 100% with paint thinner. This will ensure that you are not encapsulating anything which might be a possible short. Once the caulk in in place you will have a very difficult time dealing with such a problem. I prefer to wash panels clean them and use a layer of heavy poly packing tape. This makes handling safer and it is easy to remove and replace if need be. There is a ton of info on the archive at this site on panel building. After all these years and having built wire screen and perf metal stators I still believe that the wire stator is the most cost effective method to use. Best regards Moray James.
I don't disagree with any of Moray James comments, but I think he depicts are far gloomier situation than actually exists. Although Acoustat panels can show signs of degradation over time, the incidence of panel failure is still pretty low even after all these years, and most speaker failures are due to problems with the interface and not the panels. So, if one can obtain used panels of fairly recent vintage (and yes, Spectra panels can be used in the 2+2) then I think it would be a far easier path to obtain original replacements rather than build your own. Panels frequently appear on eBay, and sometimes whole speakers can be obtained cheaply enough to be used as a parts source.
Unless of course, you are interested in tackling a project to build your own panels, which can certainly be rewarding in itself.
By the way, you didn't mention why you need new panels. Are you having a problem with your existing panels?
Reply to Acoustate Answer Man
Recent problem I've had were rattling during heavy bass passages, which was cured by caulking the circumference of each panel, and bass slap in a used replacement panel. (Sorry for the vague language. Rattling and slap are different and hard describe unless you've heard them already.)
I also was also having a problem with the unfinished wooden frame wicking up humidity and draining off the charge on the panels, resulting in a 10db or so loss of gain. (Humidity in Long Beach, CA often gets to 90+ percent overnight.) For a long time, I combated this problem by directing a space heater across the front my speakers. (I know, DUMB.) This melted on of my panels resulting in a failure.
The solution to the moisture problem was extremely simple (once I thought of it). I removed the bottom panels and directed the space heater at the bottom of the frame for several hours and then coated the bottom of the frame and two feet up the sides with clear lacquer. Problem solved!
My goal is to stock up on spare panels, because I know they're going to be unavailable someday soon.
Thanks once again for your thoughtful reply. It's appreciated.
Recent problem I've had were rattling during heavy bass passages, which was cured by caulking the circumference of each panel, and bass slap in a used replacement panel. (Sorry for the vague language. Rattling and slap are different and hard describe unless you've heard them already.)
I also was also having a problem with the unfinished wooden frame wicking up humidity and draining off the charge on the panels, resulting in a 10db or so loss of gain. (Humidity in Long Beach, CA often gets to 90+ percent overnight.) For a long time, I combated this problem by directing a space heater across the front my speakers. (I know, DUMB.) This melted on of my panels resulting in a failure.
The solution to the moisture problem was extremely simple (once I thought of it). I removed the bottom panels and directed the space heater at the bottom of the frame for several hours and then coated the bottom of the frame and two feet up the sides with clear lacquer. Problem solved!
My goal is to stock up on spare panels, because I know they're going to be unavailable someday soon.
Thanks once again for your thoughtful reply. It's appreciated.
8ea. Acoustat M4s..that 4, 9" an 4, 8" panels just sold on e-bay for $200.US...There out there.....Audiogon...But you can find some one that well pay you more...
But if you dont like the ones you have.... why would anyone wont more?....Hehe...right..I only buy the 9" No 8".... to me the 9" sound better...goodluck
But if you dont like the ones you have.... why would anyone wont more?....Hehe...right..I only buy the 9" No 8".... to me the 9" sound better...goodluck
Do you mean placing a bead of caulk at the junction of the panels and the frame? Thanks!
I'm a fellow Long Beach Acoustat nut. At some point I'm planning on building replacement Acoustat panels; I'll let you know when I do. In the meantime, I do have some spare panels. Private message me if you're interested.
Sounds like your problem was or still is lose diaphragms. you can re tension them with a hand held heat gun. this should be done every five to ten years. the diaphragms are made of Du Pont HS65 which is 65 gage heat shrink Mylar film. I would suggest you practice on some old panels so you don't melt your good ones. keep the gun at least 6 inches off the diaphragm and keep the gun moving all the time don't stop to concentrate on one spot. It is easy to spot loose diaphragms as you will see wrinkles in the corners of the panel. loose diaphragms will also collapse and stick to the stator much more easily than a well tensioned one will. I hope this helps. best regards Moray James.
The problem of rattling panels, and/or 'bass slap' can often be remedied by gently and evenly re-shrinking the mylar diaphragm with a heat gun. The mylar can sometimes lose its tension. Although not a common problem, it does happen sometimes.
You may have effected the same result with your electric heater.
On the subject of the frame absorbing moisture to the extent that it bleeds off the bias, well, that's a new one to me. There really shouldn't be any contact between the high voltage parts of the panel and the wooden frame. You may have had leakage between the bias wire and the frame. Sheathing both the stator and bias wires in PVC tubing may remedy that. Later models of Acoustat did just that, although that was done more for arc-protection (read: fire protection) rather than bias bleed-off.
Yes, Do Be Careful with that Heat gun !!!
Here is what happened when I wasn't pay attention and I looked away at something just for a moment.
!!!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/162127-different-ideas-esl-panels-3.html#post2129441
jer
Here is what happened when I wasn't pay attention and I looked away at something just for a moment.
!!!http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/162127-different-ideas-esl-panels-3.html#post2129441
jer
Hi tyu
First of all, I want to thank all of you for your wonderful feedback.
To answer your question: I've replaced the panel I melted with a used panel that has bass slap. I've tried caulking the used panel with silicone, but this doesn't get at the problem. If I were content just to listen to Mozart string quartets, this wouldn't be a problem, but I like occasional heavy bass rock 'n roll as much as the next guy.
Also, knowing the way things seem to go around my house, it would be good to have a backup panel or two sitting in the wings.
First of all, I want to thank all of you for your wonderful feedback.
To answer your question: I've replaced the panel I melted with a used panel that has bass slap. I've tried caulking the used panel with silicone, but this doesn't get at the problem. If I were content just to listen to Mozart string quartets, this wouldn't be a problem, but I like occasional heavy bass rock 'n roll as much as the next guy.
Also, knowing the way things seem to go around my house, it would be good to have a backup panel or two sitting in the wings.
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