BG Neo 3 Headphone project

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Remlab

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Joined 2011
O.K. I found the headphones I'm going to use for the Neo 3PDR tweeters. They are amazing cans for the money. Sturdily built, two detachable cords of different lengths(11.5ft and 4ft),and two swivel points(Three if you include the fold up feature). All this for $22.00. They supposedly sound amazing. They are the Mono Prices at the bottom of this page
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-sealed
I'm taking the drivers out and replacing them with the neo 3 drivers. I am also removing the closed back from these cans because planar magnetic headphones sound much better that way. Planar magnetic headphones are amazingly expensive( $700.00 up to $2,000). If this experiment works, they can be had for under $200.00. If they sound good enough to my ears, I'll send them to Tyll Herstens for a full battery of dummy head measurements which he then posts on his site in the DIY section..
Here's another article on the Mono Price;
http://www.head-fi.org/products/monoprice-mhp-839/reviews
(The product# is different but the product is the same)
Seth
 
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R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
Remlab said:
O.K. I found the headphones I'm going to use for the Neo 3PDR tweeters. They are amazing cans for the money. Sturdily built, two detachable cords of different lengths(11.5ft and 4ft),and two swivel points(Three if you include the fold up feature). All this for $22.00. They supposedly sound amazing. They are the Mono Prices at the bottom of this page
InnerFidelity's "Wall of Fame" Full-Size Sealed | InnerFidelity
I'm taking the drivers out and replacing them with the neo 3 drivers. I am also removing the closed back from these cans because planar magnetic headphones sound much better that way. Planar magnetic headphones are amazingly expensive( $700.00 up to $2,000). If this experiment works, they can be had for under $200.00. If they sound good enough to my ears, I'll send them to Tyll Herstens for a full battery of dummy head measurements which he then posts on his site in the DIY section..
Here's another article on the Mono Price;
Monoprice MHP-839 Reviews
(The product# is different but the product is the same)
Seth
Click to expand...

I tested these BG tweeters a few weeks ago in a very crude, totally sealed enclosure with roughly the same volume and absorption(more absorption than normal)as typical headphones. I completely sealed it off with putty so there was no air leakage.
The frequency response was shocking to say the least. The response was ruler flat from 40hz to 700hz. No wiggle. No anything. Just a flat line. Above that, frequency response measurements are not reliable without a headphone dummy head and an HRTF filter. The intriguing thing though, is that a driver designed as a tweeter can do that at all! This is what got me started on this crazy project/experiment..
 
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R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
This was taken from a different thread..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster

Remlab, even used at low levels as earspeakers, surely the high fs of the Neo 3s will make them unsuitable for full range use?
Toaster

The Neo 3 has no fs. For proof of this, look at the impedance trace on the Zaph website. Perfectly resistive(Flat) to the upper and lower limits of the graph. This is why planar magnetic tweeters can be used as headphone diaphrams, and conventional tweeters obviously cannot.
Seth
 
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R

Remlab

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Joined 2011
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studiotech

studiotech

Member
Joined 2004
Seth,

I have a pair of neo3 floating around that I was gonna put in my car, but this project really has me excited! Looking forward to more information and pictures.

Do you have the monoprice headphones yet? I have a pretty narrow head and a lot of times large headphones do not fit well. :rolleyes:

Greg
 
R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
I must state that when It's all said and done, they may sound good, or they may sound like crap. That's why I'm investing as little as possible in this project. What happens above 700hz is extremely critical for good performance, regardless of what happens below that point...
Seth
 
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R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
studiotech said:
Seth,

I have a pair of neo3 floating around that I was gonna put in my car, but this project really has me excited! Looking forward to more information and pictures.

Do you have the monoprice headphones yet? I have a pretty narrow head and a lot of times large headphones do not fit well. :rolleyes:

Greg
Click to expand...

My head is pretty narrow also. I'll let you when I get them on Tuesday.
 
studiotech

studiotech

Member
Joined 2004
Remlab said:
I have the Neo 3PDR's. If they are too subdued in the highs because of their inherent design characteristics, someone with the regular Neo 3's could be of help with this experiment..
Click to expand...

Mine are the non-pdr, BUT they are a special automotive version, so they are 4 ohms. This is REALLY pushing it for a standard headphone amp. Whatever you choose, will need to have some real cajones to drive either version. Might be better off using a small, low wattage T-amp.
 
R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
Greg
I got the Monoprice headphones today. Outstanding fit. They are also very easy to take apart and modify... This is going to be fun!
I have my T-amp ready for action in battery mode. It is very reactive into high impedance loads(the Neo 3's in my current funky headphone setup sound way better with 40 ohm resistors in series with this little amp), similar to a single ended triode amplifier. This could actually be helpful in this particular situation..
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sonic-impact-model-ta2024-super-t-power-amplifier-measurements
 
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R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
Really good news.. The Monoprice headphone pads fit perfectly over the Neo 3 frames. Almost like they were made for them. I had to be careful slipping them over the corners. It's a good idea to gently stretch them out before fitting, to avoid ripping the vinyl.
I hooked them up to my tube amp's 4 ohm tap with 20 watt 40 ohm resistors in series with the Neo 3's and listened. All I can say is that they sound WAY better than I ever thought they would. Everything seems to be in perfect balance and extremely musical, and the Bass sounds flat and ultra clean. This was done by pressing the Neo 3's up to my ears with the ear pads attached while laying down on the couch and listening to several acoustic and electric Al Di Meola tracks and some Diana Krall.
(My hands and fingers were to the sides of the diaphragms while pressing). The next step is to make a frame for the Neo 3's so I can attach them to the yokes of the Monoprices. Neo 3's are heavy for use in headphones, so I hope they can be pressed against the ear the way they should be after assembly. The tube amp sounds so good with them, that I probably won't go the plug route. That approach probably wouldn't work anyway unless I had a good powerful headphone amp. Here's some pictures
Pictures by remlab - Photobucket
 
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studiotech

studiotech

Member
Joined 2004
Remlab said:
Greg
I got the Monoprice headphones today. Outstanding fit. They are also very easy to take apart and modify... This is going to be fun!
I have my T-amp ready for action in battery mode. It is very reactive into high impedance loads(the Neo 3's in my current funky headphone setup sound way better with 40 ohm resistors in series with this little amp), similar to a single ended triode amplifier. This could actually be helpful in this particular situation..
Sonic Impact Model TA2024 Super T power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Click to expand...

OK, so how does this relate to your use of 40 Ohm resistors in line with the Neo3? I see Stereophile measured with 2, 4, and 8 Ohm loads....

Curious as to the results with a much higher than normal load on an output meant to driver speakers. The tube amp might become very non-linear as well. Do you have 16 Ohm taps on the amp?

Greg
 
studiotech

studiotech

Member
Joined 2004
Remlab said:
Really good news.. The Monoprice headphone pads fit perfectly over the Neo 3 frames. Almost like they were made for them. I had to be careful slipping them over the corners. It's a good idea to gently stretch them out before fitting, to avoid ripping the vinyl.
I hooked them up to my tube amp's 4 ohm tap with 20 watt 40 ohm resistors in series with the Neo 3's and listened. All I can say is that they sound WAY better than I ever thought they would. Everything seems to be in perfect balance and extremely musical, and the Bass sounds flat and ultra clean. This was done by pressing the Neo 3's up to my ears with the ear pads attached while laying down on the couch and listening to several acoustic and electric Al Di Meola tracks and some Diana Krall.
(My hands and fingers were to the sides of the diaphragms while pressing). The next step is to make a frame for the Neo 3's so I can attach them to the yokes of the Monoprices. Neo 3's are heavy for use in headphones, so I hope they can be pressed against the ear the way they should be after assembly. The tube amp sounds so good with them, that I probably won't go the plug route. That approach probably wouldn't work anyway unless I had a good powerful headphone amp. Here's some pictures
Pictures by remlab - Photobucket
Click to expand...

That looks like a rather tight fit with the earpads. I think you might want to tape off the driver openings and grind down the corners to a more round profile. Are you attempting to use any part of the original ear cup ,or just mount the neo3 as naked as possible to the headband? The headband looks like it is quite narrow in its relaxed, normal position. I hate headbands that pinch and put a lot of pressure on the wearers head. My AKG 501 are great for long term comfort. Very little inward pressure and very lights cans.

Greg
 
R

Remlab

Member
Joined 2011
As long as the load is purely resistive, everything will be OK with the tube amp. The T-amp is a different story, the higher the impedance, the more the the high frequencies peak. The lower the impedance, the more the highs are attenuated. My 50 watt tube amp is probably only putting out about 5 watts into the 48 watt load..
 
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