Apogee Bass ringing
Here the deal.... the resion i got out of the Apogees was the bass ringing...after hearing the ringing, i heard it every time so i move on back to the ESLs...An have used A ribbions out of the Magnepans with the Acoustats....but after seeing the bass set up in these... thay have dealt with the ringing....with the rubber???
The more i look the more i wont....If you have not seen the Apogees....
The bass metel went under the wood....this made them ring....Now we no what thay did ....it all about the LOOK....well that was then $$ 5k for this look.
Here the deal.... the resion i got out of the Apogees was the bass ringing...after hearing the ringing, i heard it every time so i move on back to the ESLs...An have used A ribbions out of the Magnepans with the Acoustats....but after seeing the bass set up in these... thay have dealt with the ringing....with the rubber???
The more i look the more i wont....If you have not seen the Apogees....
The bass metel went under the wood....this made them ring....Now we no what thay did ....it all about the LOOK....well that was then $$ 5k for this look.
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Double sided tape is a great idea it is quite sticky and should hold well I would think.
tyu, I know exactly what you mean,I haven't really noticed the ringing as much as the fact that my Duette's have lost their tension and now the sound like a rattling pie pan! He,he
If I do get to the point of messing with them I will try to save the original diagphrams and incorperate the rubbber band surround as well.
I am not impartial to their originality but rather make them sound good again as I love my DIY ESL's.
It is quite amazing the true cost of that $1,000,000 sound !!!
jer
tyu, I know exactly what you mean,I haven't really noticed the ringing as much as the fact that my Duette's have lost their tension and now the sound like a rattling pie pan! He,he
If I do get to the point of messing with them I will try to save the original diagphrams and incorperate the rubbber band surround as well.
I am not impartial to their originality but rather make them sound good again as I love my DIY ESL's.
It is quite amazing the true cost of that $1,000,000 sound !!!
jer
had apogee stages a few years ago, but power handling was a joke an you needed an arc welder to make them sing,they eventually blew the output stage on my amp, so went off ribbon speakers. i have made the mistake of thinking all these type of speakers were like that, not so! have had a few speakers since avantgarde uno,anthony gallo 3.1,various diy ones but i must eat humble pie these epsilons are a different class in fact i am shocked at how much better they are, really. notes start so much cleaner no overhang and power handling is in a different league to apogees,dynamics are astounding ,example fleetwood mac dreams mick fleetwoods cybal that he hits at the intro to this track is delivered with no compression at all and its not untill you here it reproduced properly you realise 99% of speakers fail in this task i dont think its possible for a conventional loudspeaker to do this, my uno horns were supposed to be dynamic not in comparison to these there not !
the thinner cpc tape would increase the sensitivity as the total weight of the diaphragm is important the lower the better! I have just started using 6um mylar with my 4.5 mm aluminium tape on my latest rebuilds. Although the thinner mylar makes it a bit more delicate to work with. I notice that the magnets are spaced, I have my magnets touching each other. This gives a stronger field and louder sound. All my speakers have 4,8, and 16 ohm inputs so you can drive them with any amp. I don't use any crossovers, which only waste power. I have built speakers ranging in size from 60 x 40 mm to 7' 2' in size, using ferrite and neo magnets, and I am still learning. I have many ferrite magnets left, so I will be busy for a while yet. I may even rebuild all my rebuilds as I learn more, wish me luck.!!!
geraldfryjr
I haven't really noticed the ringing as much as the fact that my Duette's have lost their tension and now the sound like a rattling pie pan...
pie..pan that the sound....i call it ringing...i got a pr of the new magnepan 1.7 thought that this would over come the prob....all i can say is 1.7 were not for me...no life..
Apogee put some type of hard fome around the frame....any way like to hear this speaker...
Jamebos
Magnets, Can you see in the pix of the bass, how miney an what cost....Can you just gess....????
Thanks
I haven't really noticed the ringing as much as the fact that my Duette's have lost their tension and now the sound like a rattling pie pan...
pie..pan that the sound....i call it ringing...i got a pr of the new magnepan 1.7 thought that this would over come the prob....all i can say is 1.7 were not for me...no life..
Apogee put some type of hard fome around the frame....any way like to hear this speaker...
Jamebos
Magnets, Can you see in the pix of the bass, how miney an what cost....Can you just gess....????
Thanks
63 magnets of that size, you could use more of a smaller size about a pound each? Cheaper than buying a new one and very easy to replace the tape although I would do it as a continuous length myself. and would get rid of the gap between the magnets!They look even more primitive than my designs underneath!!If you place the magnets touching you can use tape of half the width. This would increase the sensitivity.
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I think the Apogees were even spacet more a part....what up with that...magnepan also has a gap.....US i gess $2.ea...thanks for your input...
Briant can you get a fix on the sound now that you have them tapet??....I to had 3 pr of the stages ...but at that time i had a krell amps thay would drive any thing...But the Ringing... move on...
thanks
Briant can you get a fix on the sound now that you have them tapet??....I to had 3 pr of the stages ...but at that time i had a krell amps thay would drive any thing...But the Ringing... move on...
thanks
Shame, shame!
In my experience, all the Analysis speakers do things no other panel can: however, they don't last forever. I've just had my Omegas and Omicrons repaneled in Greece because there's no-one in the UK (that I know of) who can do it.
We were hoping to resell them, but without the local backup, I'm a bit cagey about doing that, and I'm letting stock go at a loss. The shame of it is that nothing else sounds the same!
It's a shame the design isn't put into larger scale production. They're like Apogees and Maggies and Quads with all the problems fixed. Good luck with the double-side tape!
In my experience, all the Analysis speakers do things no other panel can: however, they don't last forever. I've just had my Omegas and Omicrons repaneled in Greece because there's no-one in the UK (that I know of) who can do it.
We were hoping to resell them, but without the local backup, I'm a bit cagey about doing that, and I'm letting stock go at a loss. The shame of it is that nothing else sounds the same!
It's a shame the design isn't put into larger scale production. They're like Apogees and Maggies and Quads with all the problems fixed. Good luck with the double-side tape!
hi, yep the double tape is only temporary as all the rubber suspension is rotting away even in its present condition its the best sound i have ever had and i am afraid to say i have had more speakers over the years than i care to remember,once i get a suitable type of rubber i can effect a repair i only have to cut out the rubber from the diaphram as the panel itself is fine,none of this is rocket science just needs time and a bit of research. £3K to get a factory repair is beyond my budget and i believe i can repair them to a satisfactory level,the general layout and soldering of components leaves a lot to be desired so i will sort that out as well .time and a bit of lateral thinking and i believe these can be improved over the factory build as it looks like they were built in a hurry something i am not constrained by, i hope the current analysis speakers are built better my ones may have been early ones so they may have inproved quality control by now its quite amazing they sound so good in there present condition
Brian,
I used to own one of the first Analysis Omicron produced for about 10 years. I went through one set of ribbons during this time. It did not cost me so much, as far as I can remember. Have you tried to contact the manufacturer himself? (Mr Hartzis)
If I still had a speaker like like this, I would have liked to be in original condition.
I used to own one of the first Analysis Omicron produced for about 10 years. I went through one set of ribbons during this time. It did not cost me so much, as far as I can remember. Have you tried to contact the manufacturer himself? (Mr Hartzis)
If I still had a speaker like like this, I would have liked to be in original condition.
For that price you're half way to the cost of a new pair . . . I'm not expecting to get more than £3K for our completely repanelled and updated Omicrons, and probably well under half the cost of a new set for the repanelled Omegas. Like I said, the shame of it is that they're not much better known. Everyone I know who has heard them feels the same way about them, yet the handful of reviews sometimes damn them with faint praise.
yes i agree its a shame they have not had more exposure i have heard them at hi fi shows in the past thats why i took a punt on them when they came up for sale the suspension of the bass panel it what sets them apart and being a bit easier to drive although my krell fbp 200 is doing a good impression of a convector heater at the moment so am not sure they are that easy to drive.
Bryan t, Just out of curiosity how thick is the mylar diaphragm? I have started using 6um but is very awkward to work with, too easy to tear. The panels look very simple to replace on the epsilons. So why it should cost that much, I can't understand. I could build 5 pairs for that money. I hope all goes well for the repairs etc.
There's a different option:
Remove the bass panel and design a configuration of multiple conventional
woofers and appropriate XO. Maybe invest 1/3 of £3k and a bit of time for
development.
Crossover frequency is around 600Hz ?
Which are the specific properties of the bass panel that could
outperform conventional woofers ?
Horizontal dispersion matching that of the ribbon at XO ? Hm ...
Absence of breakup modes ? Hm ...
Efficiency ? Hm ...
Level of nonlinear distorsion ? Hm ...
Maximum volume displacement ? Hm ...
Low resonant frequency and rather high Qt ? Hm ...
This is DiyAudio isn't it ? Why don't take the damage and difficulty (cost)
in repairing as a start for something different.
Or maybe Jamesbos can develop a replacement kit ... seem's closer to you
than Athens.
Kind Regards
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literally making them throw away speakers if damaged....
The Same can be sead for the Apogees....$2k-4k Magnepans...$7-1kbut people pay a lot of money for the speakers still.....now if your are say that I well pay more than $300-500...for a pr with one bad bass...if i had the money....$3k for a killer speakers with new bass...yes
But i know i could Diy these before any Apogee...All i could do is sale...
The Same can be sead for the Apogees....$2k-4k Magnepans...$7-1kbut people pay a lot of money for the speakers still.....now if your are say that I well pay more than $300-500...for a pr with one bad bass...if i had the money....$3k for a killer speakers with new bass...yes
But i know i could Diy these before any Apogee...All i could do is sale...
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