Please help with Midrange Apogee Divas
Hi, I am a new member as of today. I have a pair of 1992 Apogee Divas. Like others on this site have posted, you can no longer get to the old Apogee posts to find very useful info. I have read many posts on dyiAudio and can see there are a lot of people very knowledgeable on Apogee subjects. I hope someone can help me with a question. I have had to replace my midrange ribbons at least 9 different times in the last 20 years, as a pair, because I like to play music loud. When Apogee sold the replacement ribbons they were only $60.00 a pair. Now they are about $320.00 a pair. I bought a lot of spare replacement ribbons from Apogee, Graz, and Robert Darangus but I didn’t keep them separated. Whenever I replaced my ribbons in the past they ALWAYS measured about 3.0 ohms each. As the Apogee Acoustic’s replacement literature states they should measure. I just replaced both midrange ribbons this weekend and they only measure 1.67 and 1.78 ohms. I checked and double checked and I installed them correctly. No shorts. My question is; will the lower resistance degrade the sound of these wonderful sounding speakers. Will they "burn out quicker" I now believe/imagine the midrange is now louder and not as full soundings, like it is playing at a higher frequency. I do not see any more movement than normal from ribbons when playing music. I am using an active crossover at 500 hz 6 db, as I have been, so I know the lower resistance isn’t affecting the crossover point like it might in a passive crossover. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
If anyone needs pictures of Divas apart let me know.
Thanks,
Tom
Hi, I am a new member as of today. I have a pair of 1992 Apogee Divas. Like others on this site have posted, you can no longer get to the old Apogee posts to find very useful info. I have read many posts on dyiAudio and can see there are a lot of people very knowledgeable on Apogee subjects. I hope someone can help me with a question. I have had to replace my midrange ribbons at least 9 different times in the last 20 years, as a pair, because I like to play music loud. When Apogee sold the replacement ribbons they were only $60.00 a pair. Now they are about $320.00 a pair. I bought a lot of spare replacement ribbons from Apogee, Graz, and Robert Darangus but I didn’t keep them separated. Whenever I replaced my ribbons in the past they ALWAYS measured about 3.0 ohms each. As the Apogee Acoustic’s replacement literature states they should measure. I just replaced both midrange ribbons this weekend and they only measure 1.67 and 1.78 ohms. I checked and double checked and I installed them correctly. No shorts. My question is; will the lower resistance degrade the sound of these wonderful sounding speakers. Will they "burn out quicker" I now believe/imagine the midrange is now louder and not as full soundings, like it is playing at a higher frequency. I do not see any more movement than normal from ribbons when playing music. I am using an active crossover at 500 hz 6 db, as I have been, so I know the lower resistance isn’t affecting the crossover point like it might in a passive crossover. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
If anyone needs pictures of Divas apart let me know.
Thanks,
Tom
Tom,
That's interesting. For the majority of users (who don't use a line-level crossover) that would create a big difference in electrical crossover IF the stock crossover remained in place.
Are you positive your resistance measuring technique and/or equipment has remained the same?
Regarding the old forum: You can still search the archives of the old-old (Audioworld) forum with a clumsy searching function on the "new" forum. The problem was some of the newer threads on the new forum were discarded not long after that forum was brought online because they contained some DIY repair information that wasn't complementary to the commercial repair model that was instituted.
Apogee's, at this point, are VERY expensive speakers......either to repair or purchase or restore.
Cheers,
Dave.
That's interesting. For the majority of users (who don't use a line-level crossover) that would create a big difference in electrical crossover IF the stock crossover remained in place.
Are you positive your resistance measuring technique and/or equipment has remained the same?
Regarding the old forum: You can still search the archives of the old-old (Audioworld) forum with a clumsy searching function on the "new" forum. The problem was some of the newer threads on the new forum were discarded not long after that forum was brought online because they contained some DIY repair information that wasn't complementary to the commercial repair model that was instituted.
Apogee's, at this point, are VERY expensive speakers......either to repair or purchase or restore.
Cheers,
Dave.
Dave,
I replaced the ribbons one speaker at at a time. When I read 1.67 ohms on the new ribbon installed I quickly measured the other ribbon that I had not replaced yet. It measured 3.2 ohms. I believe I remember (one of the 3 people above) selling ribbons that were stated superior, more effecient and lower resistance. In your opinion will the lower resistance effect the sound quality? And thanks, I will try to find post on ribbons with less resistance in Audioworld.
Thanks,
Tom
I replaced the ribbons one speaker at at a time. When I read 1.67 ohms on the new ribbon installed I quickly measured the other ribbon that I had not replaced yet. It measured 3.2 ohms. I believe I remember (one of the 3 people above) selling ribbons that were stated superior, more effecient and lower resistance. In your opinion will the lower resistance effect the sound quality? And thanks, I will try to find post on ribbons with less resistance in Audioworld.
Thanks,
Tom
Why are you replacing them? maybe all you need is a re-tension? I remember reading somewhere what the tension settings were for the mid and tweets...
If you are running the mid ribbons with a 6 db slope, you are likely allowing quite a bit of LF through a stressing / stretching the mid ribbon...
What are you doing with the old ribbons? Care to send them to be for a few experiments?
If you are running the mid ribbons with a 6 db slope, you are likely allowing quite a bit of LF through a stressing / stretching the mid ribbon...
What are you doing with the old ribbons? Care to send them to be for a few experiments?
These are very early Graz ribbons and they are 1.8 ohms. Graz and I talked several times and I sent him samples of my midrange ribbons when he first started up. I have 6 pair of Graz ribbons, counting the ones I installed, and they all average 1.8 ohms. I have 2 pair from Apogee and they are 3.1 ohms. I should have measured before I installed them. But I wouldn't think the sound would be bad on the 1.8, I just need to turn down volume on mids. I have small samples of my old 3.0 ribbons. 2 small pieces about a foot long. I do not believe I am running my amps into clipping. My Krell 300S has lights that let me know.
Silicone fix for Apogee foam
Hey folks,
by rethinking about what I wrote here, I realized that I forgot one important part about the silicone mixture:
I used Zhermack HT33, those are two bottles, the silicone and the hardener.
I also put silicone oil into the mixture. The silicone oil is the reason, why the dryed mixture is so very soft.
If I remember correctly, I used 1 part silicone, 1 part hardener and 1/3 part silicone oil.
If you try it, do a mixture before for testing; it should be very soft, if not, put more silicone oil into it.
It's important to stir the components very thoroughly.
Suck the mixture into the syringe and do the procedure like described.
It's working perfectly.
Happy eastern to all of you.
Olaf
Hey folks,
by rethinking about what I wrote here, I realized that I forgot one important part about the silicone mixture:
I used Zhermack HT33, those are two bottles, the silicone and the hardener.
I also put silicone oil into the mixture. The silicone oil is the reason, why the dryed mixture is so very soft.
If I remember correctly, I used 1 part silicone, 1 part hardener and 1/3 part silicone oil.
If you try it, do a mixture before for testing; it should be very soft, if not, put more silicone oil into it.
It's important to stir the components very thoroughly.
Suck the mixture into the syringe and do the procedure like described.
It's working perfectly.
Happy eastern to all of you.
Olaf
Hey jer - it was your suggestion to use that flowable silicone windshield sealer from autozone - the stuff, once mixed with silicone oil, flows and solidifies worked perfectly!! Nice and soft!
Thanks to you and taotao!
My Fix Post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/234035-apogee-buzz-fix.html#post3452326
Thanks to you and taotao!
My Fix Post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/234035-apogee-buzz-fix.html#post3452326
Last edited:
WoW, Very cool!!!!
Were did you get the Silicone oil ?
I have to experiment with this !!!!!!
jer
P.S. I just noticed your new thread, This is great news and I am so excited!!!!
I have a Friend that is in the copier repair business and I will see if he can get me some of that oil!!
Were did you get the Silicone oil ?
I have to experiment with this !!!!!!
jer
P.S. I just noticed your new thread, This is great news and I am so excited!!!!
I have a Friend that is in the copier repair business and I will see if he can get me some of that oil!!
Last edited:
The stuff I used mixed perfectly with that Windshield sealer. After playing around with a solidified hunk of silicone, you can see why they used it in breast augmentation...
I dare say that these ribbons sound fantastic - does bass and HF better than my ESLs, and 95% of the mids (ESL's still have the mids).
I always wanted a speaker that had the bass slam and treble of my Tympani T-IVa's, and these Apogee Duettas are it.
I dare say that these ribbons sound fantastic - does bass and HF better than my ESLs, and 95% of the mids (ESL's still have the mids).
I always wanted a speaker that had the bass slam and treble of my Tympani T-IVa's, and these Apogee Duettas are it.
Last edited:
Also, I might make mention of one thing I found...I found the buzz by listening to female voices (Jennifer Warnes on Famous Blue Raincoat - her voice sounded extremely raspy), and it was clearly there...front and center, right on her voice.
But when I ran test tones between 150 and 350, it was much more identifiable - buzz - kazoo sound at high volumes. For the hell of it, I ran the same test tones through my CLS and lo and behold, still had some buzz sound (the lights dimmed too and the amps got HOT). So all my amps all made the CLS buzz at these frequencies(Sanders Innersound ESL Amp, ICEPower 1000 and Krell KSA-50 Clone)...
Anyway, those that are using these test tones only to fix their Apogees will find themselves chasing a problem that may not be present...don't depend on test tones only....
On the fixed DS, still have a small bit of buzz between 150hz and 300hz, but no where near the amount before the silicone fix.
If anyone would confirm these findings on other speakers, it would be great!!
But when I ran test tones between 150 and 350, it was much more identifiable - buzz - kazoo sound at high volumes. For the hell of it, I ran the same test tones through my CLS and lo and behold, still had some buzz sound (the lights dimmed too and the amps got HOT). So all my amps all made the CLS buzz at these frequencies(Sanders Innersound ESL Amp, ICEPower 1000 and Krell KSA-50 Clone)...
Anyway, those that are using these test tones only to fix their Apogees will find themselves chasing a problem that may not be present...don't depend on test tones only....
On the fixed DS, still have a small bit of buzz between 150hz and 300hz, but no where near the amount before the silicone fix.
If anyone would confirm these findings on other speakers, it would be great!!
Last edited:
Yes, I agree the first time I had a really good listen to them I was listening to Eric Clapton's Unplugged CD.
I can remember clearly to this day the sound of him tapping is foot on the hardwood stage was just impeccable, I felt like I was really there!!
This was the first time I had ever heard such clarity come out of a set of speakers.
But when I paired them up with my very first 8" X 22" ESL's the midrange was definitely a step above that even with the old 6V6 OPT's I was using.
I had even listened to a pair of ML's in that very same week and even they didn't impress me that much, as curved ESL's just don't no it for me at all.
Here it is 10 years later and I get them back and there was that nasty buzz I read so much about, and, I though that they were doomed.
I am glad that I have much patients in waiting to find have finally found the cure to fix them.
I will most definitely try to get to them this summer for sure now!!!
jer
I can remember clearly to this day the sound of him tapping is foot on the hardwood stage was just impeccable, I felt like I was really there!!
This was the first time I had ever heard such clarity come out of a set of speakers.
But when I paired them up with my very first 8" X 22" ESL's the midrange was definitely a step above that even with the old 6V6 OPT's I was using.
I had even listened to a pair of ML's in that very same week and even they didn't impress me that much, as curved ESL's just don't no it for me at all.
Here it is 10 years later and I get them back and there was that nasty buzz I read so much about, and, I though that they were doomed.
I am glad that I have much patients in waiting to find have finally found the cure to fix them.
I will most definitely try to get to them this summer for sure now!!!
jer
I do not know what yours look like, but maybe a retension is needed? Re-tension - re-tune the bass panels if there is a lot of sag in the bass ribbons. Have a RTA mike and tune per that German tutorial. I did not need to do anything on mine, but if mine were sagging, I would definitely try to re-tension...
Sometime it takes a few nutjobs with cahunas (like us) to try these crazy DIY ideas like this silicone drip...sometimes we win?
Sometime it takes a few nutjobs with cahunas (like us) to try these crazy DIY ideas like this silicone drip...sometimes we win?
Well I have been working on these Apogee Duetta Sig Bass.....An have found the the Apogee Stage Has a better upermid an vary top end.....Also the flowable silicone Buzz Fix kills some more of the uper-mid so i well Only be working on the Buzzing Spot!.....Not the hole driver...also you well get better mids-high mix... if you replace the foam on the top an bottem rales... so there not lose even if there a littel snug....this makes a big diff sound wise....but i am using the stock crossover that in Jason Bloom thinking was his best work to date....
You know with the old ....Sprague and ASC capacitors .. that i use to day still.... if i can find them....sound much better than the V-caps i have... an most others....
I am driving these Apogees with a pr SunFire300 Amps... one 300 pr speaker with some of the Best sound i have ever got out of the Duettas Sg..... these are Killer Amps......thanks for all the info
You know with the old ....Sprague and ASC capacitors .. that i use to day still.... if i can find them....sound much better than the V-caps i have... an most others....
I am driving these Apogees with a pr SunFire300 Amps... one 300 pr speaker with some of the Best sound i have ever got out of the Duettas Sg..... these are Killer Amps......thanks for all the info
Last edited:
Make sure you use the 1/3 silicone oil and 2/3 Permatex sealant. The resultant composite is extremely soft and pliable.
Upper mids and very top end? What frequency? The passive crossover is 6db slope first order 1000hz (I think) and there is a lot over overlap from the tweeter ribbon above 500hz.
Use a 250hz - 300hz test tone to identify the resonant buzz. You can't miss it if you have it. And don't mistake of amp clipping (distortion) and the Apogee Buzz with these test tones.
I am quite happy with my results.
Upper mids and very top end? What frequency? The passive crossover is 6db slope first order 1000hz (I think) and there is a lot over overlap from the tweeter ribbon above 500hz.
Use a 250hz - 300hz test tone to identify the resonant buzz. You can't miss it if you have it. And don't mistake of amp clipping (distortion) and the Apogee Buzz with these test tones.
I am quite happy with my results.