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Magnepan MG-12 Crossover upgrade
Magnepan MG-12 Crossover upgrade
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Old 24th July 2017, 04:21 AM   #41
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Originally Posted by DeltaStar View Post
Dave, They blew fuses like popcorn even went to 5 amp.........
Al
Yee haw! You're the man Al!

Dave.
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Old 25th July 2017, 02:45 PM   #42
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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I dont mean to spoil the fun but after about a thousand hours (literally) of crossover manipulation on similar designs as the Maggies and Apogees this is my conclusion...

1- Never really was convinced that air core coils on the bass diaphragms crossed over below about 500 hz were any better than properly designed steel laminated core

2- Simply changing to "higher grade" components of same value does not nessasarily result in balanced overall improvement

3- Everything effects everything else in ways im not sure we understand well

I know, Mr. negative , but seriously there have been times when I have spent countless hours aligning crossovers of all huge expensive air cored coils and expensive caps and was convinced it was better, then went back to the much cheaper iron cored and even at times electrolytic cap xover that had similar time spent aligning and I hate to admit it but more than once the cheaper x over ether won out OR was simply different not necessarily better.

In the end I came away with this...

Very minor changes in the volume balance of mid range to treble are far more important to the ear than the supposed technical improvements of higher grade components that can BTW upset this balance. At times even 1 db difference takes the sound from "hi fi" to "high end".

The ear seeks "balance". If I get a cleaner sounding or more transparent sounding treble it will sound "better" initially BUT eventually if I dont bring the mids and bass up to the same level of fidelity the system can sound more "correct" going back to the less than stellar treble.

Anyway let the fun continue, learn, play. I offer my conclusions (for what there worth ha) just as a guide....
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Old 25th July 2017, 04:46 PM   #43
DeltaStar is offline DeltaStar  Canada
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lowmass, you could be on to something here, and it make's sense. If you move a xo point 5 hz, it does change the whole sound, maybe thats what changed.
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Old 25th July 2017, 06:17 PM   #44
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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lowmass, you could be on to something here, and it make's sense. If you move a xo point 5 hz, it does change the whole sound, maybe thats what changed.
Some have claimed that even a 1/2 db change in balance from midrange to treable can not only be heard but can alter the character enough to go from just "hi-fi" to convincing.

I have played with this and while im not sure I can hear 1/2 db changes in this I can definitely hear 1 db.

The first time I noticed this was with adjusting the rake of the response from mids to treb. An easy thing to do with a good ribbon that is doing 500 hz and up. Anyway on some material it was suprising how much more real things sounded.

the point is this, 1 db is easy to come and go with a bunch of changes in x over components even if they are close to same values.

Last edited by lowmass; 25th July 2017 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 27th July 2017, 04:31 PM   #45
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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If you're producing 1db relative variations, then the crossover components are not close to the same values.

Generally, when folks swap in "audiophile-grade" crossover components, there is some measurable/objective difference in the component characteristics causing the subjective difference.....it's not because of some audiophile magic inducement.

Cheers,

Dave.
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Old 27th July 2017, 06:24 PM   #46
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by Davey View Post
If you're producing 1db relative variations, then the crossover components are not close to the same values.

Generally, when folks swap in "audiophile-grade" crossover components, there is some measurable/objective difference in the component characteristics causing the subjective difference.....it's not because of some audiophile magic inducement.

Cheers,

Dave.

Agree
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