In that case, my suggestion might be to play with the toe-in of the speakers. In other words, try having the panels not facing directly at the listening position.
You could also experiment with adding some resistance in series with the primary of the HF transformer. However, since the HF transformer covers a fairly broad range, that might drop some of the upper midrange too, which may or may not address your perception of too much top-end.
Greetings all, this is my first post so please tell me if I are doing this in the wrong place. If I am, sorry. I have a 100 wpc hybrid amp with which I am driving model 4's.Plays loud ( 12x14 foot room ) sounds great. Just picked up a set of 1+1's. I spoke with the builder of the amp, who suggested the amp may have trouble at higher volumes and told me he could put a coupling transformer between the amp and each interface so that the amp only sees a safe 4 ohm load. Any ideas/opinions? Thanks
Just picked up a set of 1+1's. I spoke with the builder of the amp, who suggested the amp may have trouble at higher volumes and told me he could put a coupling transformer between the amp and each interface so that the amp only sees a safe 4 ohm load.....
well put the amp on the 1+1s an see if it can drive the panels...
http://www.zeroimpedance.com/....ck out this site...these thigs work in some setups an i think theres a in home 60day retrune....good luck
well put the amp on the 1+1s an see if it can drive the panels...
http://www.zeroimpedance.com/....ck out this site...these thigs work in some setups an i think theres a in home 60day retrune....good luck
Hey tyu thanks for the info. Those transformers might do the trick,has anyone here used them? I hooked up the 1+1's to the hybrid amp and they sound great. The only problem is that If I crank them and the amp says oh oh can't do this I could fry my mosfet output devices that are supposedly irreplaceable. I don't care to take the chance. Thanks again.
Well the 1+1s are realy just one panel....when you are seting at ear level!
An you have the M4s..an your amp runs fine...is this right?
So dont think that even with a biger amp or the ZreOs autiofourmers your going to get massif output....
Most of the people that like the 1+1s run them in a smaller room,or thay know there a lot less output out of one 9"X 48" panel ...veas 4 panels 2 9"X48" an 28"X48" in each of the M4s...
I have had most of the older 1s,M2s,M3s M4s An 1+1s An 2+2s... i like the M3 made out of 3ea 9"X48" ea speaker.... No 8"X48"s... like the nom.....M3s
lot of people say the 1+1 have the best sound stage...but thay should hear 3ea. 9"panels flat...like the 1+1 panels...So it just tradoffs like most things...
There are some mods that can be done to the 121 interfaces ....after all there 25-30 years old...like new- better caps...new bias doides caps....not a lot of $$ for great gains...
There A LOT of info on this on these site...Good luck.....Long live Acoustats
An you have the M4s..an your amp runs fine...is this right?
So dont think that even with a biger amp or the ZreOs autiofourmers your going to get massif output....
Most of the people that like the 1+1s run them in a smaller room,or thay know there a lot less output out of one 9"X 48" panel ...veas 4 panels 2 9"X48" an 28"X48" in each of the M4s...
I have had most of the older 1s,M2s,M3s M4s An 1+1s An 2+2s... i like the M3 made out of 3ea 9"X48" ea speaker.... No 8"X48"s... like the nom.....M3s
lot of people say the 1+1 have the best sound stage...but thay should hear 3ea. 9"panels flat...like the 1+1 panels...So it just tradoffs like most things...
There are some mods that can be done to the 121 interfaces ....after all there 25-30 years old...like new- better caps...new bias doides caps....not a lot of $$ for great gains...
There A LOT of info on this on these site...Good luck.....Long live Acoustats
Yes tyu the amp ran fine and plenty loud for me (NOT concert levels) with the 4's and are running the 1+1's at decent volume, I'm just worried that it may not take too much to hit the limit of the amp, and then it's too late. I'm not looking for huge volume, when I pushed the 4's with a Mac 2125 (120 per side) loud for me had the macs meters in peaking a little over 20 watts. To clarify, the 4's have blue medallion transformers rebuilt by Roy Esposito rebuilt 2 years ago with the c mod, and the 1+1's have blue medallion trans from the factory, recently serviced. I should probably hook the modded interface to the 1+1's. And yes, a friend has the 3's with servos, wow. Thanks again for the info.
Hi timon, Don't forget that the Acoustat 1+1s are the most difficult to drive of ALL the Acoustat line around 81db i have owned and been around Acoustat's for more than 40 years i love them all but what they say about them having the best sound stage well it's true at least for me the only model that i heard BETTER was my friend Jocelyn's DIY Spectra 8800s and that for me as been the BEST speakers i have ever heard in more than 40 years i have no doubt that there is something out there that is better BUT at least three or four times the price believe me when i say dollar for dollar NOTHING even come's close and yes i am BIAS.
Hi all just a brief intro. I recently bought a pair of acoustat Model 3's for $400 that have never been opened up or modified . They work great and sound fantastic. They are definitely keepers! I've already contacted Roy Esposito and will have my interfaces done, including both the C and the Air mods in the Spring.
I'm running Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks 500 watts into 8 ohms, 1000 into 4. Even they run out of juice on the Acoustats. I'm not quite sure if the protection is kicking the amps off due to too much current out, or not enough in, but they do trip relatively early. My theory is they see the low impedance of the Acoustats as a short circuit and bail to save themselves.
I'm wondering if these autoformers might be the solution, but $450 is a bit too dear for me to potentially toss down the rat hole. I think instead I'm going to invest in a decent subwoofer to take some of the burden off both the amps and the speakers. Ther amps seem to kick off mostly during the loud bass passages.
I'll be lurking and learning, and hopefully not putting my foot in my mouth (too often). Carry on!
I'm running Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks 500 watts into 8 ohms, 1000 into 4. Even they run out of juice on the Acoustats. I'm not quite sure if the protection is kicking the amps off due to too much current out, or not enough in, but they do trip relatively early. My theory is they see the low impedance of the Acoustats as a short circuit and bail to save themselves.
I'm wondering if these autoformers might be the solution, but $450 is a bit too dear for me to potentially toss down the rat hole. I think instead I'm going to invest in a decent subwoofer to take some of the burden off both the amps and the speakers. Ther amps seem to kick off mostly during the loud bass passages.
I'll be lurking and learning, and hopefully not putting my foot in my mouth (too often
). Carry on!
Meat Popsicle, How loud are you trying to play those 3's , I get 85DB with ease using a lowball amp the Hafler 220 rated 100wpc, and thats at sitting 60' from them, and thats way way to loud for me at most time's. maybe the room is to small for them, they need alota space to breathe in, or they suck the amp dry cause they can't make sound in close qaurters.
Meat - try adding a series resistor on pos out to speaker -start with a white coffin .47ohm 20W, then a 1 ohm - and give it a shot. My Model 3's brought nearly all my amps to their knees, even my ICEPower 1000ASP at 1000 wpc. The only amp that took everything was my Krell KSA-50 clone with a 1200VA tranny. You may find the added resistor may not sound good, but worth a shot. An amp cutting out at high volume doesn't sound good either, no?
Delta, my room is 14X22, Speakers are against the long wall, approx 9 ft apart center to center, and approx 9 1/2 feet on the angle to my listening position. They are currently toed in so the center panel is aiming directly at my ears, not in front or behind.
I don't have a SPL meter, although I can d/l one for my IPhone and take some readings later. I was a jet engine mechanic in the Navy for 26 years so my hearing is, shall we say, less than pristine. I know I've had conventional loudspeakers that played much louder with less power, but not in the same league as far as quality.
John, let's pretend I don't know much about electronic components (because I don't). Where would I get the resistors and what do they do to the sound? I assume the overall idea is to present a more stable impedance load to the amps, am I correct? If it's that easy, what is the deal with the auto formers?
I don't have a SPL meter, although I can d/l one for my IPhone and take some readings later. I was a jet engine mechanic in the Navy for 26 years so my hearing is, shall we say, less than pristine. I know I've had conventional loudspeakers that played much louder with less power, but not in the same league as far as quality.
John, let's pretend I don't know much about electronic components (because I don't). Where would I get the resistors and what do they do to the sound? I assume the overall idea is to present a more stable impedance load to the amps, am I correct? If it's that easy, what is the deal with the auto formers?
I have M3 Acoustats An i run Them with 60 watts tube amps... 60years old tubes...
There parts that can be upgreaded....like the bias parts...yours bias is at about 3k...after 25-30 years gofig.you can redo the bias for about $100.uS for the Pr...
An the 50k res. big res. like less than 1" from 5kV may look ok...but i bet thay have holes in them from being driven buy amps that were never made to drive ESL.... the holes pull the out put down evey time bass get pushed...
but most never look at this an say i cantdrive the Acoustats....look when these Speakers were made there were the Evey Mans ESL....an the Amps made back then were far from ESL amps an thay work great for over 20years...Martinlogan Cost $$$$ an so do SoundLabes an Thay Last 10 years mabe... An thay need work all the time...but Acoustat should work for ever are it the Amp!....good luck with that....Look on this site there All the info you need about Acoustats an there are miny others
There parts that can be upgreaded....like the bias parts...yours bias is at about 3k...after 25-30 years gofig.you can redo the bias for about $100.uS for the Pr...
An the 50k res. big res. like less than 1" from 5kV may look ok...but i bet thay have holes in them from being driven buy amps that were never made to drive ESL.... the holes pull the out put down evey time bass get pushed...
but most never look at this an say i cantdrive the Acoustats....look when these Speakers were made there were the Evey Mans ESL....an the Amps made back then were far from ESL amps an thay work great for over 20years...Martinlogan Cost $$$$ an so do SoundLabes an Thay Last 10 years mabe... An thay need work all the time...but Acoustat should work for ever are it the Amp!....good luck with that....Look on this site there All the info you need about Acoustats an there are miny others
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Hmmm, set up like that I would think their canceling themselves out. better if you could stick them angled in the corners of the short wall, or halfway down the room on the long wall. I fiund Acoustats to be kind of a weird science , after about 87db which is extremely loud to me, most box jobs being point source will sound louder, but they are the craps in well layered sound.
PS: I think back in 89 I bought a set of 3's for 200 dollars from the Soundroom in Van, BC, They wouldn't play loud at all. I sent the interfaces to Hafler, they rebuilt them, didn't cost me a dime, except for shipping, dunno what they did but they were like my others , back to normal.
PS: I think back in 89 I bought a set of 3's for 200 dollars from the Soundroom in Van, BC, They wouldn't play loud at all. I sent the interfaces to Hafler, they rebuilt them, didn't cost me a dime, except for shipping, dunno what they did but they were like my others , back to normal.
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Yeah, Deltastar, the second one is how I have them, my equipment console sits exactly half way on the long wall and is flanked by the Acoustats. They sit out approx 3 feet from the back wall on the toed out end. I use blankets on the wall behind the Acoustats to tame the secondary reflections and bass traps in 2 of the corners. The lps, CDs and DVDs along one short wall provide diffusion and on the other is a low storage unit/record cleaning area with another blanket behind. All the seating occupies the opposite long wall. Tv is wall mounted above the console, so I can't easily change the room configuration.
Tyu, I think I understand your point. I've examined the membrane as closely as possible and can find no pinholes or anything. The 3's were owned by the same gentleman for the past 16 years and were well cared for. I'm hoping once Roy does his magic they may be easier to drive.
Thanks guys, and I'll post up after I measure the SPL.
Tyu, I think I understand your point. I've examined the membrane as closely as possible and can find no pinholes or anything. The 3's were owned by the same gentleman for the past 16 years and were well cared for. I'm hoping once Roy does his magic they may be easier to drive.
Thanks guys, and I'll post up after I measure the SPL.
Meat - (I feel funny calling you that, no offense) the resistors can be found off ebay, or any electronics shop. They give the amp something to work off of (yes, a more stable impedance). I can't say that I did not like the sound, but it may have changed the sound a little.
I also added another two diodes to the multiplier and raised the bias to 6kv and it also made it a bit easier for the amp too. tyu suggested it, and as long as it doesn't give you any noise/hiss/pops, is preferred over the resistor. It will also make your acoustats more efficient too. Just get the right diodes (only two) for the voltage...
I also added another two diodes to the multiplier and raised the bias to 6kv and it also made it a bit easier for the amp too. tyu suggested it, and as long as it doesn't give you any noise/hiss/pops, is preferred over the resistor. It will also make your acoustats more efficient too. Just get the right diodes (only two) for the voltage...
Thanks for the helpful suggestions guys, but I know next to nothing about electronics at the component level, can barely read most schematics, and would probably screw up some irreplaceable part in the interfaces if I went in mucking about.
Instead, today I added in a sub, and low/high passed the Acoustats/sub at 80 hz. The 'stats sound much happier and use less power by not having to deal with that low bass, and I'm rewarded with a deeper bass sound from the sub. It's just a Dayton 12" from Parts Express, drops off precipitously below 30 hz, and it's not extremely articulate, but it's what I have for now.
I ran a SPL test. and pushed 100 db(a) peaks measured from my listening position with no amp shutdown. I'm good to go for now, and will report in after Roy E. overhauls and mods the interfaces in the spring.
Thanks again for your help, (lurk mode ON)
Meat
Instead, today I added in a sub, and low/high passed the Acoustats/sub at 80 hz. The 'stats sound much happier and use less power by not having to deal with that low bass, and I'm rewarded with a deeper bass sound from the sub. It's just a Dayton 12" from Parts Express, drops off precipitously below 30 hz, and it's not extremely articulate, but it's what I have for now.
I ran a SPL test. and pushed 100 db(a) peaks measured from my listening position with no amp shutdown. I'm good to go for now, and will report in after Roy E. overhauls and mods the interfaces in the spring.
Thanks again for your help, (lurk mode ON)
Meat
John, to understand why I chose the "Meat Popsicle" moniker:
1. Watch the movie "The 5th Element".
meat popsicle - YouTube
or
2. Work outside all day in Maine winter.
1. Watch the movie "The 5th Element".
meat popsicle - YouTubeor
2. Work outside all day in Maine winter.
I'm currently evaluating an Onkyo TX-NR818 with my Spectra 11's and dual subs, and Audyssey MultEQ XT32 really takes the speakers to a new level in sound clarity and stereo imaging. I have previously used the free DRC software on the PC for calibration, but XT32 give me better results and it's much more convenient to have it in the receiver. The integration of the Spectra ESL panels, woofers (not originals though) and subs is perfectly seamless. The 818 also has a builtin digital XO (with configurable freq, phase and delay) so that you can bypass the Spectra XO's completely and connect the ESL panels and woofers to separate amp outputs. If you're considering a buying a receiver for your Spectra's I would definitely recommend giving the 818 (or some other model with XT32) a try.
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