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Old 14th September 2017, 07:42 AM   #1811
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Yes open up the box.....then plug in the Ac wire..... ck for 5k at the output end of the 500k bias feeder res.....leave the wires in place

For the last 30 years...I have owned a lot of Acoustats ....an I always come back to the 1+1s.....why...thay give 97-8% of the sound of any of the biger ones ...but...there the hardest to drive full rang...an hardest on the interfaces....but with each added panel you get 3db more output so drive wise...the M3 is the best....
In the end.. any ESL with out the right bias ...thay well be hardest too drive..hardest on the interfaces parts......an sound off....

all just one mans finding.....good luck
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Old 14th September 2017, 10:00 PM   #1812
charlesp210 is online now charlesp210  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyu View Post
Yes open up the box.....then plug in the Ac wire..... ck for 5k at the output end of the 500k bias feeder res.....leave the wires in place

For the last 30 years...I have owned a lot of Acoustats ....an I always come back to the 1+1s.....why...thay give 97-8% of the sound of any of the biger ones ...but...there the hardest to drive full rang...an hardest on the interfaces....but with each added panel you get 3db more output so drive wise...the M3 is the best....
In the end.. any ESL with out the right bias ...thay well be hardest too drive..hardest on the interfaces parts......an sound off....

all just one mans finding.....good luck
OK, thanks, I'll check that after I clean the variable resistors this weekend.

I don't recall ever experiencing amplifier shutdowns before having the 1+1's.

Even when working right, they are difficult, and when things go awry, worse to very worse.

Not all electrostats are like that. I'm told the ESL-63 delay line makes the ESL-63 load essentially resistive, so it's no problem for wimpy amps.

I don't know how it could have been otherwise with 1+1's. You want all that bandwidth, and ruggedness (relatively thick membrane, insulated wires, wide gap) in a one-way system with limited radiating area...then it is going to be a tough load no matter what.
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:03 AM   #1813
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Originally Posted by charlesp210 View Post
OK, thanks, I'll check that after I clean the variable resistors this weekend.

I don't recall ever experiencing amplifier shutdowns before having the 1+1's.

Even when working right, they are difficult, and when things go awry, worse to very worse.

Not all electrostats are like that. I'm told the ESL-63 delay line makes the ESL-63 load essentially resistive, so it's no problem for wimpy amps.

I don't know how it could have been otherwise with 1+1's. You want all that bandwidth, and ruggedness (relatively thick membrane, insulated wires, wide gap) in a one-way system with limited radiating area...then it is going to be a tough load no matter what.
Yes....when I say harder to drive...I have my 121 interfaces open when I work on bias....an I run M3,M4, 1+1 with the same interfaces....
It the two 9" panels...when ran in the M2 setup...side by side or 1+1 the bass trans is set on the red input wire.....even with new bias parts...the 500 res in the mixer get hot if I run a krell or sunfire300 or my QSC 400 watt pro amp....that I use to ck out all ESLs.....why ...QSC has fans...when your stat to drive any ESL used,old... the fan well step up to the high... if there a problem...if all is well ,stay on low fan..saves time...there can be bad trans,wire...,bias,or what ever...

But like I said....98% of the time it the bias...so I do just what Roy E an other do....an say you should even if you get 5k..look these parts are 30-35 year old an on all the time....bias is what makes any ESL work!

Ok now the Quad 57 great speaker....63 not so much...an no quad well play
with half the output of My Acoustat or ML CLSs ...I run my new cls panles with a Acoustat bias....the CLS is only thing better than my Acoustats
Stock CLS....no thanks.....
All just one mans finding
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Old Yesterday, 10:23 PM   #1814
charlesp210 is online now charlesp210  United States
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Default Resistor cleaning didn't stop shutdowns

Sadly but not unexpectedly, my slow and careful cleaning of the 16 ohm resistors in my Acoustats last weekend had no effect on the shutdowns. It seemed to make for better sound though.

Next thing will be disconnecting the LF transformers, almost certain to be the cause of the problem.

However, that will have to wait two weeks because I am attending an audiophile BBQ and attending a symphony on Saturday, and hosting a Sunday party this weekend. I plan to switch to my other amplifier and play at modest levels for the party which I have barely enough time to get ready for.
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Old Yesterday, 10:35 PM   #1815
charlesp210 is online now charlesp210  United States
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Default 1+1 resistor set to 14+2 ohms

I measured the resistor in one Acoustat disconnected from the hot side of the transformer. Even so disconnected, I found it necessary before measuring any resistances to short the terminals being compared for a few seconds, to discharge any stored energy. The interface had been powered down and disconnected for days.

From the wiper (seemingly factory set at 0dB) to the transformer I measured 1.85 ohms, and the other side measured 14.2, coming almost exactly to 16.0 ohms total.

When the hot side is connected, the resistance at the top leg appears to go down (because it is shunted by the HF transformer). In that condition, the resistance measured 1.6 ohms. I used that value as a target when re-setting the wipers to 0dB.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I've never seen these values reported here. People often say the values are 10+6, or sometimes 13+3, but I'd never seen anybody say 14+2.

My ultimate plan is to get a 2 ohm non-inductive resistor and use that for the top part, and use the current 16 ohm variable resistor as a fixed resistor for the bottom part. This will only have a small effect on the HP crossover for the LF transformer (16 vs 14 ohms) but in the direction I think is good for me (since I highpass the entire input at 100 Hz).
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