Hi
I have two toroids wich i would like to use as step up transformers.
The 7V windings are on the amp side and should be wired in parallel and the 230v output windings should be in series and center tapped to the bias power supply.
so the 230v output windings have both the same color and i don't know wich one i have to connect
thanks
50 VA
primary 230 VAC, 48...60 Hz
secondary 7 VAC (2x)
Prüfspannung
4 kV
I have two toroids wich i would like to use as step up transformers.
The 7V windings are on the amp side and should be wired in parallel and the 230v output windings should be in series and center tapped to the bias power supply.
so the 230v output windings have both the same color and i don't know wich one i have to connect
thanks
50 VA
primary 230 VAC, 48...60 Hz
secondary 7 VAC (2x)
Prüfspannung
4 kV
Attachments
If both wires for the 230 volt winding are the same color and don't exit the transformer in physically different locations, there really isn't any way to know other than try both possibilities and measure the results.
1) Apply 1Vrms to all 4 of the primaries. You should measure about 30Vrms on each of the secondaries.
2) Now connect together one yellow wire from transformer #1 with one yellow wire from transformer #2.
3) Measure the voltage between the two remaining free yellow wires. If you get 60Vrms, you guessed correctly and the wires you connected together should be used as the center tap.
Don't forget to mark them so you don't have to repeat this test again later
4) If you get close to 0Vrms, you guessed wrong. Switch the wire from transformer #2 that you have hooked up with transformer #1. You should now measure 60Vrms between the remaining free yellow wires.
Good luck!
Hi hironimo,
Could you please post where you purchased these trannys? The reason I ask is that 230v toroids are generally not available in the US and it's so hard to find an overseas source that 1) accepts online payment via US credit card and 2) will ship to the USA.
BTW: I'm using tandem 230v/2x6v toroids in my hybrid esl's and they sound wonderful and I'll bet yours will too.
regards,
Charlie
Hi Charlie
I bought the Toroidal Core Transformer online:
https://www.distrelec.com:443/ishop...4165&typePhrase=&keywordPhrase=&vendorPhrase=
but I don't know if they ship to to the USA
regards
Hironimo
I bought the Toroidal Core Transformer online:
https://www.distrelec.com:443/ishop...4165&typePhrase=&keywordPhrase=&vendorPhrase=
but I don't know if they ship to to the USA
regards
Hironimo
Hi
Thank you bolserst
I found out which two yellow wires are connected to the center tab.
the bias power supply I want to use has negative output.
I have now two remaining free yellow wires which go to the stators does it matter which one is connected to the front and back stator ( like + /- with normal magnet speaker) ?
thank you
Thank you bolserst
I found out which two yellow wires are connected to the center tab.
the bias power supply I want to use has negative output.
I have now two remaining free yellow wires which go to the stators does it matter which one is connected to the front and back stator ( like + /- with normal magnet speaker) ?
thank you
hi hironimo,
Yes, switching which wires go to which stator changes the phase just like swapping +/- with a magnetic speaker. You can also switch the phase by swapping the connections to the transformer primaries.
Is your ESL full range? or a hybrid where you will be crossing over to a magnetic woofer.
If full range, then it doesn't really matter which way you hook up. Most people like to retain positive pressure output for a positive signal input from the amplifier, but I haven't personally found it to make any difference to my ears.. However, you will need to make the same connections on both left and right channels for both the stators and for the transformer primaries so they have the same phase.
If hybrid, you will need to use the connection that provides the best summation at the crossover point with the woofer. For example, if you are crossing over at 400Hz, play a 400Hz sine wave and listen on the FRONT side of the ESL with your ear midway between the ESL and the woofer. Listen to the loudness. Then switch the connections of either the woofer or the ESL, but NOT both. Then listen to the 400Hz sine wave again. The connection producing the loudest response is the connection providing matched phasing between the ESL and the woofer.
If you have some measurement or RTA software on your computer, you can play pink noise and choose the connection that gives the smoothest response at the crossover point.
Hi Bolserst
thank you.
I want to build a hybrid , the esl -panels are 20 x 40 inch made of perforated steel 1mm thick with 2 mm holes 40% and 65mil D/s spacing with two vertical spacers.two torroids 230v/7v x 2 50 VA per panel and a regulated bias power supply.
the plan is to use two Behringer Reference A500 amplifier and a crossover SUPER-X PRO CX3400 ( SUPER-X PRO CX2310 ).
for the + /- thing i will try that but it needs some time till i get there.
now i'm at that point where i have to decide what kind of woofer I should use.A TL with a peerless sls-10 (cheap trick 220) (Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau) according to the ESl cookbook it is a good idea to use a TL.
or a dipole like Dipol W8Q ( Dipol W8Q - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic)
but i haven't heard any of them so i can't really tell.
so long
hironimo
thank you.
I want to build a hybrid , the esl -panels are 20 x 40 inch made of perforated steel 1mm thick with 2 mm holes 40% and 65mil D/s spacing with two vertical spacers.two torroids 230v/7v x 2 50 VA per panel and a regulated bias power supply.
the plan is to use two Behringer Reference A500 amplifier and a crossover SUPER-X PRO CX3400 ( SUPER-X PRO CX2310 ).
for the + /- thing i will try that but it needs some time till i get there.
now i'm at that point where i have to decide what kind of woofer I should use.A TL with a peerless sls-10 (cheap trick 220) (Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau) according to the ESl cookbook it is a good idea to use a TL.
or a dipole like Dipol W8Q ( Dipol W8Q - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic)
but i haven't heard any of them so i can't really tell.
so long
hironimo
I think the perf size /open area and d/s spacing you described will give very good efficiency.
My 12x40 panels are similarly configured and they can play very loud so I'm sure that your 20x40 panels will be more than big enough for a hybrid. There is some tradeoffs with larger panel size, though, as the larger capacitance can reduce the treble response, depending the interaction of the capacitance with the trannys. With the toroids and step-up ratio you will have, I think you're probably OK with 20x40-- but if you're like me and don't have a firm understanding of how to calculate the capacitance and its effects on treble response, you might want to ask some of the more knowledgeable guys here on the forum to verify that your panels size will still give good treble response or if a slightly smaller panel would be better.
With 40" height panels and TL bass, I think your panels would be a good match for a horizontally baffled TL box placed under the stat panels like Sheldon Stokes used on his ESL 1.0's shown here:
good luck with your project and keep us posted
Charlie
@hironimo
I kind of skipped over the dimensions of your proposed panel 20x40. Like CharlieM mentioned, 12x40 is more than loud enough to match up with magnetic woofers for a hybrid design. I would recommend sticking with 12" width. The only reason I can think of to make them wider is to make them more efficient. But 12" width is already efficient enough. By sticking with 12" width, you will get a bit better dispersion for the high frequencies.
Concerning capacitive load and your transformers. Most small power toroids like you plan to use have very low leakage inductance. I would not expect you to have any problems with treble response with a 12"x40" panel or a 20"x40" panel.
By the way, can you tell us what brand the transformers are and where you purchased them?
I think several other builders would be interested in knowing.
hi
I decided to make them 20x40 because the perforated metal sheet comes in 40 x 80 inch
and the shop I ordered it from can cut it in 4 pieces they just cut it the way that they don't have any material left like 2 x 40 x 40 and so on, (so I could have ordered it in 5 pieces ca 15 x 40 inch but to late now)
the other reason is the no-compromise hybrid design in the cookbook has a approx 18 x 36 inch panel and my panel is (stator minus the border where I have to glue the spacer to it ) gives me something like 18.5 x 38.5 so I thought thats ok.
for the reason i don't have to cut the metal sheets I stay with the 20 x 40 panel but I gonna cut them when it's really a bad idea to make them so big.
i don' t have a good understanding about capacitive load and such things so i try to find the good questions to ask and the answers .
so thank you for you comments
hironimo
I decided to make them 20x40 because the perforated metal sheet comes in 40 x 80 inch
and the shop I ordered it from can cut it in 4 pieces they just cut it the way that they don't have any material left like 2 x 40 x 40 and so on, (so I could have ordered it in 5 pieces ca 15 x 40 inch but to late now)
the other reason is the no-compromise hybrid design in the cookbook has a approx 18 x 36 inch panel and my panel is (stator minus the border where I have to glue the spacer to it ) gives me something like 18.5 x 38.5 so I thought thats ok.
for the reason i don't have to cut the metal sheets I stay with the 20 x 40 panel but I gonna cut them when it's really a bad idea to make them so big.
i don' t have a good understanding about capacitive load and such things so i try to find the good questions to ask and the answers .
so thank you for you comments
hironimo
Hello again Hironimo,
Correction: I earlier stated that my panels were 12x40 but they are 12x48. Still, I think 12x40 would be adequate for a hybrid. If you do opt for less width panels, you might want to check out Roger Sanders' Eros speakers shown on the Innersound website here: Electrostatic Speakers & Electronics - Sanders Sound Systems
If I had seen Sanders' Eros speakers before I built mine, I might have copied his design rather than go with my beam-splitter design. Sanders' speakers use a compact transmission line with servo-controlled 10" woofers. I think the length and volume of the line is somewhat less than optimum and you'd need to compensate with higher density stuffing, which would cost you a bit of output-- still, for me the greater sonic advantage of a TL is the lack of compression, resonance and the resulting lack of coloration-- not necessarily the extra depth and power that you'd get from a more optimal line.
Attached is a scan of sketch I made-- basically a copy of Roger Sanders' Eros speaker, with 13 3/8" x 40" electrostat panels . I also have a drawing file in DFX format but it wouldn't upload here so anyone that wants it can PM me and I can email it.
Again, good luck with your project!
Charlie
Correction: I earlier stated that my panels were 12x40 but they are 12x48. Still, I think 12x40 would be adequate for a hybrid. If you do opt for less width panels, you might want to check out Roger Sanders' Eros speakers shown on the Innersound website here: Electrostatic Speakers & Electronics - Sanders Sound Systems
If I had seen Sanders' Eros speakers before I built mine, I might have copied his design rather than go with my beam-splitter design. Sanders' speakers use a compact transmission line with servo-controlled 10" woofers. I think the length and volume of the line is somewhat less than optimum and you'd need to compensate with higher density stuffing, which would cost you a bit of output-- still, for me the greater sonic advantage of a TL is the lack of compression, resonance and the resulting lack of coloration-- not necessarily the extra depth and power that you'd get from a more optimal line.
Attached is a scan of sketch I made-- basically a copy of Roger Sanders' Eros speaker, with 13 3/8" x 40" electrostat panels . I also have a drawing file in DFX format but it wouldn't upload here so anyone that wants it can PM me and I can email it.
Again, good luck with your project!
Charlie
crossover
Hi Hironimo!
I am using Behringer SUPER-X PRO CX2310, and very pleased. Just to let you know, you will need a few or maybe eight XLR connectors or adapters as the crossover has no rca out puts. got mine from parts express, as well as the crossover. Here is a pic.
I did a post a while ago with personal help from Charlie M, on the construction and everything else. Charlie is very talented, I owe my project to him, i drew him a sketch and he made everything come together. A wonderful person to have met in person.
I am running hybrids as well as Charlie and maybe Bolserst. I run the cross over at or around 500hz for the TL, and have been trying going a little lower on the stats, i know it will show a spike on a meter, but here(could be the shape of the home) it sounds more life like, i can hear lower toned voices from action movies and things of that nature.
And BTW, Charlie M, i wish you would have let me know about your towers. The draft you have is freaking awesome, the only prob with my Tl is the back wave off the box, the vent. It has a "concussion effect " that you can see moving the Diaphragm moving as the bass comes in. So i took my servo sub, placed it in the corner of the living room and WOW, the servo sub(yamaha) is crossed over around 65hz with 12db roll off, works great! everyone that comes by cannot understand what it is Charlie and I have built, "kinda cool" but when they hear it, priceless.
On another note, Bolserst, I do not think I will have the time, money or machining to construct the Dutch deal. As bad as I want it, funds and family are first. Just one favor, can you save your research, as I just might and will build a set.
Long post, have alot on my mind, and I hope the info helps you out buddy, thats a nice crossover, 2 or 3 way. just do not forget XLR connectors!
Kind regards,
MAv
Hi Hironimo!
I am using Behringer SUPER-X PRO CX2310, and very pleased. Just to let you know, you will need a few or maybe eight XLR connectors or adapters as the crossover has no rca out puts. got mine from parts express, as well as the crossover. Here is a pic.
I did a post a while ago with personal help from Charlie M, on the construction and everything else. Charlie is very talented, I owe my project to him, i drew him a sketch and he made everything come together. A wonderful person to have met in person.
I am running hybrids as well as Charlie and maybe Bolserst. I run the cross over at or around 500hz for the TL, and have been trying going a little lower on the stats, i know it will show a spike on a meter, but here(could be the shape of the home) it sounds more life like, i can hear lower toned voices from action movies and things of that nature.
And BTW, Charlie M, i wish you would have let me know about your towers. The draft you have is freaking awesome, the only prob with my Tl is the back wave off the box, the vent. It has a "concussion effect " that you can see moving the Diaphragm moving as the bass comes in. So i took my servo sub, placed it in the corner of the living room and WOW, the servo sub(yamaha) is crossed over around 65hz with 12db roll off, works great! everyone that comes by cannot understand what it is Charlie and I have built, "kinda cool" but when they hear it, priceless.
On another note, Bolserst, I do not think I will have the time, money or machining to construct the Dutch deal. As bad as I want it, funds and family are first. Just one favor, can you save your research, as I just might and will build a set.
Long post, have alot on my mind, and I hope the info helps you out buddy, thats a nice crossover, 2 or 3 way. just do not forget XLR connectors!
Kind regards,
MAv
hi
today the perforated metal sheets arrived, they are 16 x 40 not like i ordered it but as
charlieM and bolserst recommended it is better than 20 x 40 so i'm lucky with the wrong delivery.I almost finished the electronics so my plan is to finish the panels and then take care of the TL
and thank you mavric for your info about the crossover
so long
hironimo
today the perforated metal sheets arrived, they are 16 x 40 not like i ordered it but as
charlieM and bolserst recommended it is better than 20 x 40 so i'm lucky with the wrong delivery.I almost finished the electronics so my plan is to finish the panels and then take care of the TL
and thank you mavric for your info about the crossover
so long
hironimo
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