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DIY electrostatic speakers for dummies
DIY electrostatic speakers for dummies
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Old 16th January 2012, 11:42 PM   #161
null object is offline null object  Australia
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Hello chaps - thanks for doing all the thinking for me!
I know nothing about ESL's so it's nice to have a peep over your shoulder.

I thought I would suggest 3D printing as a way of making the frames or supports for the rod things.

If you can envisage it in 3D cad it can be built for real in PVC, Glass, Stone, siver, bronze or stainless steel using 3D printing.

My friend makes jewelery this way.

Have a look at this company.
Gyroid by Bathsheba on Shapeways

This is just an example of what can me made.
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Old 5th April 2017, 06:01 PM   #162
dvidovic is offline dvidovic
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Hello,

I plan to build my first ELS and I am looking at various stator designs and stator materials.

I was wondering, has anyone here tried to build the stator from carbon, and if so, what would be the best grid pattern for such material.
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Old 5th April 2017, 08:24 PM   #163
geraldfryjr is offline geraldfryjr  United States
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Hello dvidovic , Welcome to the Forum !!

If you read through this thread you will find most of the answers you may be looking for, However I have compiled a list of links to help even more info that may be of use to you here,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2205114

I my favorite materials to use is plain ole' window screen, it is by far the cheapest to use, I also use TIG rod as well I like this material for its rigidity.

Some like to use the old method of using PVC coated wire, this method can be challenging for some due to having to build a stretcher for the wire and making sure it is perfectly straight and mounting on the frames without them buckling under too much tension, it can be quite challenging for the beginner.

Perforated Metal is about the easiest way to go, But one must not make the panels and/or segments too wide or you will have a panel that will be very directional and you will have to hold your head in a vice in order to enjoy them.

To get around this, one should use an electrically segmented design, Thus the use of Insulated wire or TIG rod that is either coated or Uncoated.

I prefer to coat them as there are many discussion on that subject.

I use just common off of the shelf spray paints for my coatings, I did a whole study on this starting here but do read the whole thread from the 1st post as it has a wealth of info on the subject,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2893839

Making stator's coated with graphite has been done for ES phone (See Peter walker and Baxandall's papers on this) but I would not suggest this method for a full size ESL.
There is no benefit to sound quality by using exotic materials for stator's....At All !
Except for Frame rigidity.
(last link below)

I have wanted to try carbon fiber myself but it is just much to costly for what it is worth.

PCB material is good as well if you don't mind doing all of the machining yourself.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4498627

Here is a link the some pictures of the panels I have made using the methods I described above.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2075441

This one is a Micro driver that made using perf-board and aluminium tape,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2074212

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2076459

This one was made with Double Powder coated window screen and was the focus of my extreme testing and was quite successful for the most part ( until I burned it up).

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2142851

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2160477

I would not suggest to use PowderCoating unless it can be done right..... Without any Microcrack's forming.



As a First time builder I would suggest to build small panels until you get your construction technique down pat.

I got excellent performance out of my desk top sized models and SPL's in excess of +105db an just a 80 watt amp as shown here,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4009496

If you look closely you will see a major burn hole on the side, this was the last picture that I took of the panel after its demise just after those measurements were made.
the Charts Are calibrated in db to my SPL meter.

I made those panels in 2003.

I now have a TIG rod version the exact same size built and coated to withstand some more extreme testing very soon.

Pictured below, I have a complete build thread on another website that is still accessible but they lost all of the build pictures.
This post shows it in the bottom left corner as well as my larger unfinished full size TIG stators.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4183169

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2547781

The criteria for that build can be found here,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4076362

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post3184437

And here my actual Blueprint persey,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4184450

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4257583

Anyhow that should get you started, it is a lot of reading but it is worth it.
You will find everything you need to know in those threads and links I posted on those threads.
I do have another post with another huge list of links, You may run across it in those threads.

More reading here...

Sanders Sound Systems - Dispersion White Paper

This link is Priceless !!!
It is to the above mentioned papers, The book by Frank Verwaal is what you need to read, it explains everything on the Pro's and Con's of all of the different styles of configurations and shapes to consider.

Elektrostatic Loudspeakers

Cheers and Good luck !!!



Jer

P.S. Don't be afraid to ask about anything that you don't understand!!

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 5th April 2017 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 27th April 2017, 10:15 PM   #164
Lee the Geek is offline Lee the Geek
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Default How about this instead?

https://thewireman.com/antennap.html
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Old 28th April 2017, 12:00 AM   #165
CharlieM is offline CharlieM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee the Geek View Post
I would work of course but I have a couple of concerns about using this wire for ESL stators.

First, steel wires would be horrendously difficult to stretch straight and you really need them straight to achieve consistent d/s (diaphragm to stator spacing) and spacing between wires.

Second, most of the wire listed there is not insulated (for arc resistance) and the ones that are insulated are jacketed with something other than XLPVC, which is preferred for ESL's. And BTW, their jacketed steel wire is't cheaper than XLPVC insulated copper from Interstate Wire.

From Interstate Wire I purchased 1600 ft of XLPVC insulated 20 AWG single strand copper for $67

Last edited by CharlieM; 28th April 2017 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 28th April 2017, 02:50 AM   #166
wreckingball is offline wreckingball  United States
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Yes, that needed to be said, before someone makes a (likely expensive) mistake.
I went 'round and 'round with wire purchasing, and Interstate has the best product(s) for the best prices, (if you reside in the US).
If going the insulated wire route, this is the product I and others used:
WIA-2001-0 - UL AWM Style 1429 | Interstate Wire

Be aware, the 1429 product comes in different types. The one you most likely want is the 2001. I remember it 20/01.
Broken down, that's 20awg, with 01 (one {solid} conductor).
*edit* Oh, and FYI, it would be $36usd per 1000 foot.

Cheers
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Last edited by wreckingball; 28th April 2017 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 7th May 2017, 10:12 PM   #167
DLDude is offline DLDude
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Hey all. I'm a very mechanical guy, but struggle with circuit stuff. I feel 100% confident I can build decent panels, but the HV supply and Signal Amplification circuits have me stuck at this point. I've come across a place you can buy some self-biased HV supplied (KenSeibert.Com Audio Projects) for a decent price, however even messing with the signal transformers makes me scratch my head.

Is anyone selling a complete setup that just has the 3 wires running out and an AC plug in (Or even no input with the self-biased supply). Closest I could find is the 505 set, which comes with the ESL panels as well (Which I won't need). They're also out in Australia which makes shipping an issue.
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Old 8th May 2017, 09:39 AM   #168
CharlieM is offline CharlieM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLDude View Post
Hey all. I'm a very mechanical guy, but struggle with circuit stuff. I feel 100% confident I can build decent panels, but the HV supply and Signal Amplification circuits have me stuck at this point. I've come across a place you can buy some self-biased HV supplied (KenSeibert.Com Audio Projects) for a decent price, however even messing with the signal transformers makes me scratch my head.

Is anyone selling a complete setup that just has the 3 wires running out and an AC plug in (Or even no input with the self-biased supply). Closest I could find is the 505 set, which comes with the ESL panels as well (Which I won't need). They're also out in Australia which makes shipping an issue.
This website below shows the most simple interface that I've seen anywhere. On the front page there's a schematic and parts list and about halfway down the page there are links to build photos--click on the "Amp/panel Interface - more info" link, there are detailed photos showing how to build it.

If you're not comfortable building one yourself, I could maybe hook you up if you're building a hybrid panel.. PM me.
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Old 19th July 2017, 05:51 PM   #169
Trommelfellliebe is offline Trommelfellliebe
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Default Cancellation

Hello,

if somebody can help me. I have a few question about ESLs.

As i understand they function as dipoles and so emit two audio signals,
original + invert signal in opposite directions.
Where exactly does cancellation happen with ESL?
Many sources say that cancellation only happens at the borders of the speaker when invert signal gets reflected back?
But what would happen if i would place the speaker in parallel to a wall, let us say 2-4 inches.
You may ask yourself why on earth one should do such a thing.
It is curiosity. Would there be a great loss in volume???
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Old 19th July 2017, 06:37 PM   #170
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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Default yes, lots of loss

bad comb filter cancellations occur when dipole panels are parallel and close to walls, especially elcetrotsats which are nearly acoustically transparent

at only a few inches the lowest notch would include everything below a few kHz

ES panels can be put in closed boxes filled with stuffing - but usually the panel is already large, adding a box makes them coffin size

Last edited by jcx; 19th July 2017 at 06:40 PM.
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