yes i do get some vent noise,but only at extreme excursions and is not too noticable.
when i built them i was shootin for .75 cu ft but screwed up the dimensions of the side panels and that cost me some volume for the port volume.the inside volume is .679 cu ft and with the speaker and port it is some where between .60 to .65 cu ft.
that drasticaly changed my port length for my target frequency of 28hz to 30hz as i wanted a 3" port diameter.so then the next best was 2.5" pvc as i couldn't find any 3.5" or 3" pvc.then i discovered that a pringles chip can was the perfect diameter but was too short by about 2 to 3 inches.
This being a sub for my 1984 f-body car, it had to be sturdy and cobbling very thin walled cardboard tube with tape was out of the question.so then, i also could not find any thin wall 2.5" pvc,so this cost me a .5" in diameter.which is quite significant as you know.
so my port ended up 2" diameter and 13.5" in length for my target of 29.5 hz or there abouts. it was the first sub i have ever delt with and i am very amazed at the extreme lows and never expected so much performance out of a 8" speaker. jer
when i built them i was shootin for .75 cu ft but screwed up the dimensions of the side panels and that cost me some volume for the port volume.the inside volume is .679 cu ft and with the speaker and port it is some where between .60 to .65 cu ft.
that drasticaly changed my port length for my target frequency of 28hz to 30hz as i wanted a 3" port diameter.so then the next best was 2.5" pvc as i couldn't find any 3.5" or 3" pvc.then i discovered that a pringles chip can was the perfect diameter but was too short by about 2 to 3 inches.
This being a sub for my 1984 f-body car, it had to be sturdy and cobbling very thin walled cardboard tube with tape was out of the question.so then, i also could not find any thin wall 2.5" pvc,so this cost me a .5" in diameter.which is quite significant as you know.
so my port ended up 2" diameter and 13.5" in length for my target of 29.5 hz or there abouts. it was the first sub i have ever delt with and i am very amazed at the extreme lows and never expected so much performance out of a 8" speaker. jer
please take a closer look at this TL, notice the distance between the vent, or shelf board spacing, from smaller to larger as the chamber lenghthens, \ \
>14"
>14.125"
>14.250"
>14.375"
a little asymetric, howver, it will load up the diver in a small enclosure and unload progressive to the end. Tuning is aprox, 32-35hz @ vent. not including that these enclosres will be "corner loaded" back firing against the corner in the living room. thats why i like this as well
i can allways cut off a little of the back to raise tuning to compensate for corner loading the enclosure. as well as the TL being removable, one sub may work fine, on the other hand, two may perfect being bi-amp,
so far, no one has posted any suggestions other than my two friends, whom have taken this progect to a new level. so please. over 1'000 views and no responce per week? here is another pic for a better discription.
>14"
>14.125"
>14.250"
>14.375"
a little asymetric, howver, it will load up the diver in a small enclosure and unload progressive to the end. Tuning is aprox, 32-35hz @ vent. not including that these enclosres will be "corner loaded" back firing against the corner in the living room. thats why i like this as well
i can allways cut off a little of the back to raise tuning to compensate for corner loading the enclosure. as well as the TL being removable, one sub may work fine, on the other hand, two may perfect being bi-amp,
so far, no one has posted any suggestions other than my two friends, whom have taken this progect to a new level. so please. over 1'000 views and no responce per week? here is another pic for a better discription.
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Got a free bi today. the specs and maufacture will be in the photos. It was free and i may use it along with my stats, or sell it. Enclosure suggestions please. I allready have an amp for this thing. this is the cheapest brand sold here in south east Georgia, howver, this one might be old and better, there is a three inch coil, and the rms specs i found have never ever been true, a good 400-500 rms amp, which i also have. thinking around 4.5 cu.ft. bigger, more efficient, like a said, this is a free bi. here are the pics. thanks Mav
oh yea. single 4 ohm
oh yea. single 4 ohm
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Don't mean to complicate things, but...
Hey Mav, take a look at this paper done by Martin King, especially the part about mounting the driver further down the line. Hopes this helps and not hurts, all the best bro
Cheers, Steve
Mav, this page won't load, I'll get you the link tomorrow/ very important
Hey Mav, take a look at this paper done by Martin King, especially the part about mounting the driver further down the line. Hopes this helps and not hurts, all the best bro
Cheers, Steve
Mav, this page won't load, I'll get you the link tomorrow/ very important
Steve, i looked at the entire site, the only thing i could find close to what i am doing is just having the vent/sub on the same plane. I am open for suggestions, but i chose this as the panales are di-pole or by-pole, either way, i can switch up my sub from 108 degree to zero, same plane is what I have allways used in my car audio bussiness. this is so different, since this is push pull, i can dial in with my cross over to achieve better dispresion as these will be in a large vaulted room, corner loading the subs vent.
if you pics of the area, let me know. thanks for the interest, this is my first ESL, i do not cut any corners.
if you pics of the area, let me know. thanks for the interest, this is my first ESL, i do not cut any corners.
Hey Mav
http://www.quarter-wave.com/TLs/Advanced_Models.pdf
Above link is the only way I could get the info to you.
Your earlier post asking about driver in larger end of t-line is correct because loading it into the smaller end going to larger end is a HORN... totally different animal! LOL
BUT, the main point I was trying to get across is to have the driver mounted 1/4 to 1/3 down the line instead of at the very beginning, this way it is much easier to tame the ripples in the frequency response when it comes time to do the stuffing. Your enclosure cuts that you already have will allow you to do 1/4 but not 1/3, but that's OK as 1/4 should do it.
All you would have to do is reverse the dividers that make up your line, and that would put the driver about 1/4 way down the line since you have 4 separate "lines" folded into that enclosure of yours.
I'd be glad to talk to you via phone to explain this further, because I am terrible at typing in these posts and keeping everything focused, as there are about 20 different REASONS why I am promoting this way of completing your TL, but that's up to you bro.
Cheers, Steve
PS If you read this article I linked to, don't worry too much about all the math and such, just get the general concept of it and look at the graphs.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/TLs/Advanced_Models.pdf
Above link is the only way I could get the info to you.
Your earlier post asking about driver in larger end of t-line is correct because loading it into the smaller end going to larger end is a HORN... totally different animal! LOL
BUT, the main point I was trying to get across is to have the driver mounted 1/4 to 1/3 down the line instead of at the very beginning, this way it is much easier to tame the ripples in the frequency response when it comes time to do the stuffing. Your enclosure cuts that you already have will allow you to do 1/4 but not 1/3, but that's OK as 1/4 should do it.
All you would have to do is reverse the dividers that make up your line, and that would put the driver about 1/4 way down the line since you have 4 separate "lines" folded into that enclosure of yours.
I'd be glad to talk to you via phone to explain this further, because I am terrible at typing in these posts and keeping everything focused, as there are about 20 different REASONS why I am promoting this way of completing your TL, but that's up to you bro.
Cheers, Steve
PS If you read this article I linked to, don't worry too much about all the math and such, just get the general concept of it and look at the graphs.
Great idea!
Mav,
As you know, your box was copied from a similar box and drawn up on the fly in about 10 minutes with practically no forethought. I had a look see at Martin J. King's TL calculator and the math is beyond me but his ideas on driver placement are clear and compelling. I think you should go with Liquisonic's suggestion.
Great idea!
Mav,
As you know, your box was copied from a similar box and drawn up on the fly in about 10 minutes with practically no forethought. I had a look see at Martin J. King's TL calculator and the math is beyond me but his ideas on driver placement are clear and compelling. I think you should go with Liquisonic's suggestion.
here is some old suff that i have, as soon as i can i will post more detailed pics, just an idea for using something i have for surround sound with my stats.
On another note, my back up sub amp decided to start smoking(not my Adcom) just a back up, i guess it learned the hard way. i can make it work, but it puts dc offset the moment i turn it on. it was a free bi, find another sometime.
i think i posted my living space, the whole thing will change. TV centered, not in the corner. the sheir size of these will probally go from feft to right and shift seating backwards, cant wait!
On another note, my back up sub amp decided to start smoking(not my Adcom) just a back up, i guess it learned the hard way. i can make it work, but it puts dc offset the moment i turn it on. it was a free bi, find another sometime.
i think i posted my living space, the whole thing will change. TV centered, not in the corner. the sheir size of these will probally go from feft to right and shift seating backwards, cant wait!
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Thanks Charlie, that was redone very quick, you and CAD seem to get along very well! so just reverse the lines, router all shelf pieces, so it as smooth as it can be, 1/2lbs per cu.ft. stuffing, and i still need to post pics of the terminal cups.
day light will be brighter next week, should make some REAL progress now. Everything is here, its just dang dark outside.
Charlie, if you catch this, i am going to get some "iso" dont ask what that means, from the shop, it is the liquid super glue used in the mix for rhino. might go ahead and get both, its a 2 to 1 ratio, and can probally be used without the pressure. otherwise, will fall back on primer, and get where i need to quicker, i can test the other parts later. you still have not posted what you thought about the sample i brought you, the one all bent up and banged around, tossed in my trunk, and i could still flatten it out. thats what i need to know as well.
Let me say thank you for everyones suggestions, Liquidsonic, Gerald, Charlie, all of you.
sincerely glad you took the time. Mavric
day light will be brighter next week, should make some REAL progress now. Everything is here, its just dang dark outside.
Charlie, if you catch this, i am going to get some "iso" dont ask what that means, from the shop, it is the liquid super glue used in the mix for rhino. might go ahead and get both, its a 2 to 1 ratio, and can probally be used without the pressure. otherwise, will fall back on primer, and get where i need to quicker, i can test the other parts later. you still have not posted what you thought about the sample i brought you, the one all bent up and banged around, tossed in my trunk, and i could still flatten it out. thats what i need to know as well.
Let me say thank you for everyones suggestions, Liquidsonic, Gerald, Charlie, all of you.
sincerely glad you took the time. Mavric
Building this weekend, use Liqidsonic's advice on the enclosure. I will post pics as soon as i can, watching PAC MAN boxxing Saturday night. weird clieche, after the boxing match, the next day, Sunday, build the TL. I hope you guys are right as i will try it out.
Thanks in advance, i know you guys are right.
Thanks in advance, i know you guys are right.
Mav
"I hope you guys are right" umm... uh oh, better explain myself here.
Nathan, you DO know that using a TL is an attempt to"match up" with the "smooth" response of the ESL, don't you?
A TL can go very low in the bass octaves, but is by no means a "sub" ie. thump, punch, bump, etc. as it will reproduce none of these characteristics, in fact, a "sub" will sound great paired with regular (dynamic) speakers, but along with numerous others that own/listen to planers, these "subs" will stick out like a turd in a punch bowl! LOL
A TL on the other hand will sound like it is merely "present", providing support for the bass deficiencies inherent in an ESL or other planars.
Charlie, are you hearing me? You, as a jazzman, should be able to back me up with these points eh?
Enough typing for now, but Mav, if the bass from the 8" drivers don't provide the "weight" you desire, you may just have to opt for the 10" in short order.
Hope this makes sense to you all.
Cheers, Steve
"I hope you guys are right" umm... uh oh, better explain myself here.
Nathan, you DO know that using a TL is an attempt to"match up" with the "smooth" response of the ESL, don't you?
A TL can go very low in the bass octaves, but is by no means a "sub" ie. thump, punch, bump, etc. as it will reproduce none of these characteristics, in fact, a "sub" will sound great paired with regular (dynamic) speakers, but along with numerous others that own/listen to planers, these "subs" will stick out like a turd in a punch bowl! LOL
A TL on the other hand will sound like it is merely "present", providing support for the bass deficiencies inherent in an ESL or other planars.
Charlie, are you hearing me? You, as a jazzman, should be able to back me up with these points eh?
Enough typing for now, but Mav, if the bass from the 8" drivers don't provide the "weight" you desire, you may just have to opt for the 10" in short order.
Hope this makes sense to you all.
Cheers, Steve
Definitely the typical "sub" is too slow and clunky to fill the gap all the way up to where the electrostat takes over and it wouldn't be wise to lower the crossover point to meet it either. For this I prefer a really good 10" mid-bass woofer with clean response up to 2khz, crossed over above 250 hz to mitigate the stats dipole cancellation, as I used in my hybrids-- but Mav is doing this on a budget and he had those 8" carbon freebees lying around, which (even though we don't know their TS specs) will no doubt match up with the stats way-better than the powered subs he was contemplating earlier. In a perfect world, we'd all buy exactly what we want but the mortgage comes first and sometimes a compromise is necessary.
Mav, if you feel the need to upgrade to 10's, I could make you a great deal on those gorgeous Aurum Cantus MkII's you heard in my speakers
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