Hi,
I own a set of ESL63 as well as a pair Quad 405 and 44 amps.
At one point some two years ago, one of the ESl kept failing
when volumelevels came upto say about 13 or 14 (on scale 24)
I went to the shop (#1) they were originaly bought and told them the problem.
"Leave m here, we'll fix it for you". (they wanted both although only one was faulty)
After SEVEN ! months, they had finished this repair, charged me 1,270 euro's.
They had been 'modified' so I was told.
After I got them home and connected them, the problem was still there !
I got in touch with the repairshop where the first shop had took them (#2) and
told them my complaint. "Please bring them to us again, we'll see what we can do".
After another month and after paying ANOTHER 570 euro I took them home again.
Just to find that still the ESL kept failing !!
Well, to shorten a long long story here, both amps have been at this repairshop as well.
(to check 'if the problem was in thém maybe', they told me)
this also cost me about 300 euro. (also were 'modified')
and after all this ? The very same old problem is still here !!
Now they have told me that this is a normal condition with ESL63.
"On the 44 the volumescale goes onto 24 but I can only play upto 14 ????", I asked.
"Yes Sir, you just gonna have to live with this fact I'm afraid", they told me.
My question to you guys here:
Do you think I have been ripped off ? (to me it sure does feel so)
Sorry for my first item here being such a sad song.
Greets,
TT
I own a set of ESL63 as well as a pair Quad 405 and 44 amps.
At one point some two years ago, one of the ESl kept failing
when volumelevels came upto say about 13 or 14 (on scale 24)
I went to the shop (#1) they were originaly bought and told them the problem.
"Leave m here, we'll fix it for you". (they wanted both although only one was faulty)
After SEVEN ! months, they had finished this repair, charged me 1,270 euro's.
They had been 'modified' so I was told.
After I got them home and connected them, the problem was still there !
I got in touch with the repairshop where the first shop had took them (#2) and
told them my complaint. "Please bring them to us again, we'll see what we can do".
After another month and after paying ANOTHER 570 euro I took them home again.
Just to find that still the ESL kept failing !!
Well, to shorten a long long story here, both amps have been at this repairshop as well.
(to check 'if the problem was in thém maybe', they told me)
this also cost me about 300 euro. (also were 'modified')
and after all this ? The very same old problem is still here !!
Now they have told me that this is a normal condition with ESL63.
"On the 44 the volumescale goes onto 24 but I can only play upto 14 ????", I asked.
"Yes Sir, you just gonna have to live with this fact I'm afraid", they told me.
My question to you guys here:
Do you think I have been ripped off ? (to me it sure does feel so)
Sorry for my first item here being such a sad song.
Greets,
TT
Hmmm
So they claimed they fixed the problem of your complaint and charged you steeply for it....yet the problem wasn't fixed. At that point, you were ripped off. I would have not accepted the charges as what was done to the machine was not what you ordered. It seems like 1,270 euros is an awful lot of cash for a repair……especially over here were our dollar is waning.
So they claimed they fixed the problem of your complaint and charged you steeply for it....yet the problem wasn't fixed. At that point, you were ripped off. I would have not accepted the charges as what was done to the machine was not what you ordered. It seems like 1,270 euros is an awful lot of cash for a repair……especially over here were our dollar is waning.
Thanks for your replies boys.
Yes all in all I have now paid more than 2000 euro's and the set still feels not sound.
@Thomas: I have sent several e-mails to Quad UK (rob@iaguk.co.uk ) but never got reply. Not from them anyway, according to my postmaster the address is not in use.
@CBS240: This Company makes you pay in advance. You go and pick up your ESL there and before you can take them home with you, you have to pay.
Better still, when you bring your gear to them, they will search them for faults, and then they give you an estimate of the costs, if one decides not to go along with that price one has to pay them about a 150 euro anyway. The decision has to be made within a week or else your apparatus will be theirs to keep !!
The strangest way of treating your customers don't you think ???
Latest development in this case: Someone from firm #2 (Transtec) has contacted me.
He got an e-mail complaint from me that I had send to the UK headquarters and which was forwarded to China and finally came to him. (Did Quad UK receive my e-mail anyway ??? things are getting weirder and stranger with every contact I make)
This guy now wants to make an appointment with me to visit me at my home.
To check out the whole set and to see what can be done about this whole matter.
Of course I am very curious about his solution now.
At one hand I don't want to have anything more to do with this company, on the other hand I have paid so much money now that I insist that I'm going to get a good deal out of all this.
Yes all in all I have now paid more than 2000 euro's and the set still feels not sound.
@Thomas: I have sent several e-mails to Quad UK (rob@iaguk.co.uk ) but never got reply. Not from them anyway, according to my postmaster the address is not in use.
@CBS240: This Company makes you pay in advance. You go and pick up your ESL there and before you can take them home with you, you have to pay.
Better still, when you bring your gear to them, they will search them for faults, and then they give you an estimate of the costs, if one decides not to go along with that price one has to pay them about a 150 euro anyway. The decision has to be made within a week or else your apparatus will be theirs to keep !!
The strangest way of treating your customers don't you think ???
Latest development in this case: Someone from firm #2 (Transtec) has contacted me.
He got an e-mail complaint from me that I had send to the UK headquarters and which was forwarded to China and finally came to him. (Did Quad UK receive my e-mail anyway ??? things are getting weirder and stranger with every contact I make)
This guy now wants to make an appointment with me to visit me at my home.
To check out the whole set and to see what can be done about this whole matter.
Of course I am very curious about his solution now.
At one hand I don't want to have anything more to do with this company, on the other hand I have paid so much money now that I insist that I'm going to get a good deal out of all this.
Seems as if they are willing to try to get things set right. This sounds to be a complex situation and who knows what is really going on with the gear. I once serviced audio gear and going to a customers house (or job site) was a rare event (like 1 in 1000). If I were servicing your gear the 1st thing I would be looking for is multiple problems and resulting interaction(s). I would most likely bring an amplifier and interconnects that I knew worked and then test the speakers and go from there. Then there is always the chance that the technician is not capable or that the company is not all that concerned about customer service (that would be very foolish - but sometimes it does happen).
Good Luck with this TonyT. It will be interesting to see just how this works out.
Good Luck with this TonyT. It will be interesting to see just how this works out.
Hi,
i dont know why this issue is so difficult to fix for them
The easiest way would be to set up measurement equipment and measure each speaker under exactly same conditions. Lets say 1 meter away from the mic. Its a miracle how people "try" to repair speakers without adequate equipment.
At once you would see the difference. Possibly they wont be able to fix the problem but at least you will know that the problem is still there and that the problem is related to the speaker or not.
Capaciti
i dont know why this issue is so difficult to fix for them
The easiest way would be to set up measurement equipment and measure each speaker under exactly same conditions. Lets say 1 meter away from the mic. Its a miracle how people "try" to repair speakers without adequate equipment.
At once you would see the difference. Possibly they wont be able to fix the problem but at least you will know that the problem is still there and that the problem is related to the speaker or not.
Capaciti
TT contact Arend -Jan, he is on the board here Quad ESL 57 repair and refurbishment : he repair's quads and might be of some help to you ...
Well, the guy from TT came by and has listened to the set (not measured) and found it all to be OK.
Now this was something I had noticed myself too.
After I had picked up the 44 amp once a few weeks ago.
I just lifted/touched it and suddenly the ESL output increased to normal volume !!!
Ever since then all is absolutely fine !
The TT guy told me that inside the motherboard/print of the 44 amp there can be a fault which can
cause an output loss.
He called this “a cold solder”. “A known problem in the earlier series 44 amps” he said.
Now listening to the set I can’t hear anything wrong with it anymore, sounds great.
I finally got a specification of what was done at the very first ‘repair’ on the ESL too.
It says: (about the 12573) ‘Dustcover replaced, Top and Bottom elements replaced,
Control and sound test’.
2 Dustcover Repair kit
2 element assembly top and bottom
Service-rate.
and ( about the 12574) ’ Condensates on High-tension-print replaced,
Dustcover replaced, Control and sound test’.
14 capacitors 10nF-20/50% 2kV
2 Dustcover repair kit
Service rate.
Now my question to you is (of course)” do you think this is an 1,372,11€ repair ?”
Same months later the ESL 12573 was taken to the same company (TT) and had another repair !
This time this was specified as: ‘Delay-line replaced, Top mid element replaced, Full control’.
and I was charged 573,10€
Sure would like to hear your respected opinion on the matter.
Thanks, Greetings,
Ton
Now this was something I had noticed myself too.
After I had picked up the 44 amp once a few weeks ago.
I just lifted/touched it and suddenly the ESL output increased to normal volume !!!
Ever since then all is absolutely fine !
The TT guy told me that inside the motherboard/print of the 44 amp there can be a fault which can
cause an output loss.
He called this “a cold solder”. “A known problem in the earlier series 44 amps” he said.
Now listening to the set I can’t hear anything wrong with it anymore, sounds great.
I finally got a specification of what was done at the very first ‘repair’ on the ESL too.
It says: (about the 12573) ‘Dustcover replaced, Top and Bottom elements replaced,
Control and sound test’.
2 Dustcover Repair kit
2 element assembly top and bottom
Service-rate.
and ( about the 12574) ’ Condensates on High-tension-print replaced,
Dustcover replaced, Control and sound test’.
14 capacitors 10nF-20/50% 2kV
2 Dustcover repair kit
Service rate.
Now my question to you is (of course)” do you think this is an 1,372,11€ repair ?”
Same months later the ESL 12573 was taken to the same company (TT) and had another repair !
This time this was specified as: ‘Delay-line replaced, Top mid element replaced, Full control’.
and I was charged 573,10€
Sure would like to hear your respected opinion on the matter.
Thanks, Greetings,
Ton
Yeah, well you see, here in Holland things are not quite the same as in the US.
Here it is forbidden by law for an atorny to make a no-cure-no-pay deal.
So fair chance you're gonna loose a bundle of money without getting any satisfaction from hiring this atorny in the first place.
(Yes I have been through this in another (non-related) matter).
So....I'm having such a absolute wonderfull time enjoying my set now, don't wanna spoil this (just listening to a live concert in Santa Monica, 1972, by TRAFFIC now ..WAUW !!)
Leaving stress behind me for the time being.
Thanx anyways Lor.
Cheers,
Ton.
Here it is forbidden by law for an atorny to make a no-cure-no-pay deal.
So fair chance you're gonna loose a bundle of money without getting any satisfaction from hiring this atorny in the first place.
(Yes I have been through this in another (non-related) matter).
So....I'm having such a absolute wonderfull time enjoying my set now, don't wanna spoil this (just listening to a live concert in Santa Monica, 1972, by TRAFFIC now ..WAUW !!)
Leaving stress behind me for the time being.
Thanx anyways Lor.
Cheers,
Ton.
Have just finished a letter to Transtec in which I tell them/ask them to look into this whole matter over again. To determine how and what they are willing to satisfy their customer (me) with. I'm not going to settle for things as they are now.
Although my set is now working great, I still have paid way to much money for repairs and all.
I'm being my own athorny for now.
Story is continued and I will keep you updated.
Although my set is now working great, I still have paid way to much money for repairs and all.
I'm being my own athorny for now.
Story is continued and I will keep you updated.
If it can comfort you: the dust covers and some of the panels in your ESLs apparently were replaced, so at least they should now be ready for many more years of trouble-free service. (Let's keep our fingers crossed!)
Why did they replace the HV capacitors? Probably they measured the HV output and it was too low... Why they replaced the delay line is a total mystery to me.
This is not to say that I agree with the way they handled your case. Quite the opposite. They should have given you more feedback and asked you in advance what repairs they could do. They should have actually searched for the problem instead of just replacing some parts.
Why did they replace the HV capacitors? Probably they measured the HV output and it was too low... Why they replaced the delay line is a total mystery to me.
This is not to say that I agree with the way they handled your case. Quite the opposite. They should have given you more feedback and asked you in advance what repairs they could do. They should have actually searched for the problem instead of just replacing some parts.
Well now my fellow enthousiasts,
After I have send a letter to this company (Transtec) in which I explained to them
that I don't agree with the way they have unnecessary
charged me about a thousand euros too much all and all,
and I would highly appreciate them coming to a gentlemens agreement on this whole ordeal,
This is the reply the gave me to my letter:
02-16 2010
Dear sir,
I was surprised to read your letter to me.
It appears to me that you are trying to make a claim, this I cannot accept.
I am dissapointed that you are not satisfied with the way we have handled your audio-set.
Just like the 'old' Transtec, now 'New Transtec' always tries to give Quad owners what they rightfully deserve.
Having said this, I must, just as I told you when I visited you, insist on making you realise that your apparatus is 25-30 years old.
Apparatus of this age can begin to give complaints and faults which may have different causes.
After all these years we still try to find solutions for these matters at costs we try to keep as low as possible.
We have done so in the repairs of your Quad 44/405/ESL63 set.
I will speak to my doctor about your claim. He keeps telling me that the waranty of my phisique has by long outdated, so I must not come to him and make complains about the amount of payment he charges me.
What's worse: He charges me for every five minutes.
We at Transtec always try to cure whatever problems may occur in Quad audio sets.
Where and when we can.
No more and no less.
Greetings,
Transtec
------------------------------------------
As you can imagine I feel most offended by the tone of this reply !
Am not sure what actions to take against this Transtec now.
Or should I directly contact Quad itself ? The headquarters I mean ?
Any of you have any ideas ?
After I have send a letter to this company (Transtec) in which I explained to them
that I don't agree with the way they have unnecessary
charged me about a thousand euros too much all and all,
and I would highly appreciate them coming to a gentlemens agreement on this whole ordeal,
This is the reply the gave me to my letter:
02-16 2010
Dear sir,
I was surprised to read your letter to me.
It appears to me that you are trying to make a claim, this I cannot accept.
I am dissapointed that you are not satisfied with the way we have handled your audio-set.
Just like the 'old' Transtec, now 'New Transtec' always tries to give Quad owners what they rightfully deserve.
Having said this, I must, just as I told you when I visited you, insist on making you realise that your apparatus is 25-30 years old.
Apparatus of this age can begin to give complaints and faults which may have different causes.
After all these years we still try to find solutions for these matters at costs we try to keep as low as possible.
We have done so in the repairs of your Quad 44/405/ESL63 set.
I will speak to my doctor about your claim. He keeps telling me that the waranty of my phisique has by long outdated, so I must not come to him and make complains about the amount of payment he charges me.
What's worse: He charges me for every five minutes.
We at Transtec always try to cure whatever problems may occur in Quad audio sets.
Where and when we can.
No more and no less.
Greetings,
Transtec
------------------------------------------
As you can imagine I feel most offended by the tone of this reply !
Am not sure what actions to take against this Transtec now.
Or should I directly contact Quad itself ? The headquarters I mean ?
Any of you have any ideas ?
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Something simple you can use against them:
Tell people about your experience with them. They'll lose a lot more than 2000 euros when all those customers go missing.
Tell them (the company) clearly that the incident won't go unnoticed - don't let them intimidate you.
I've found that, after mentioning the bad press they'll receive, most companies are very willing to come to some kind of compromise.
Chris
Tell people about your experience with them. They'll lose a lot more than 2000 euros when all those customers go missing.
Tell them (the company) clearly that the incident won't go unnoticed - don't let them intimidate you.
I've found that, after mentioning the bad press they'll receive, most companies are very willing to come to some kind of compromise.
Chris
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sorry you were treated badly, But couldn't this have been avoided if you 2 communicated better as to regards of the age of the gear Vs cost of the repairs? Transtec should of least given you an estimate for you to OK before they proceeded. Reminds me of used car repair legal battles here in the US small claims courts (they are the experts as the defendant and you are not, unless you have a "qualified" 3rd party who testifies). I think your only recourse is if they didn't do some of the work they claimed (fraud).
@ infinia:
Several people tell me that even though my Quad set is an oldie, with the proper care and maitenance ánd repairs it can be as good as new !and last for many more years of care free service (see kavermei's reply above).
Only thing I know is that I experienced some problems with the set, took it to a dealer and now three years and 2000 euros later they tell me that it is such an old set that I cannot expect it to be dependable anymore....
Besides this, if you read my story well, you have to agree that after the first repair they did on the ESL which had no effect, the next step was to be waranty on this first step don't you think ?
but what they did was charge me more and still things were not OK, and so on...
Several people tell me that even though my Quad set is an oldie, with the proper care and maitenance ánd repairs it can be as good as new !and last for many more years of care free service (see kavermei's reply above).
Only thing I know is that I experienced some problems with the set, took it to a dealer and now three years and 2000 euros later they tell me that it is such an old set that I cannot expect it to be dependable anymore....
Besides this, if you read my story well, you have to agree that after the first repair they did on the ESL which had no effect, the next step was to be waranty on this first step don't you think ?
but what they did was charge me more and still things were not OK, and so on...
It might be a good idea to first try to reach the Quad headquarters and inform them on how I was treated by one of their dealers I think.
Not sure where these headquarters are located but I should be able to find that out.
I wonder how they will like the tone of this letter I recieved from Transtec.
The part about the doctor....is, in my opinion, sort of insulting to me.
Not sure where these headquarters are located but I should be able to find that out.
I wonder how they will like the tone of this letter I recieved from Transtec.
The part about the doctor....is, in my opinion, sort of insulting to me.
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