Seirously, you will have to have a product that you can sell, and won't require a lot of support after sale.
If you are confident about the product, build a few and sell online. Forums, ebay etc and try to have some review from a hifi magazine.
Your product should be such that you can size the production easly; based on standard parts that you can order, and metal/plastic/woodwork that you can easily manufacture 2 or 200 of. Sell your products and then manufacture them..
I have played with the same idea, and may even realize the idea sometime. I have access to a productionline that is very suited for building ELS's and when I have my design perfectly set up I will produce a small amount and test the market.
Best of luck to you!
If you are confident about the product, build a few and sell online. Forums, ebay etc and try to have some review from a hifi magazine.
Your product should be such that you can size the production easly; based on standard parts that you can order, and metal/plastic/woodwork that you can easily manufacture 2 or 200 of. Sell your products and then manufacture them..
I have played with the same idea, and may even realize the idea sometime. I have access to a productionline that is very suited for building ELS's and when I have my design perfectly set up I will produce a small amount and test the market.
Best of luck to you!
let me ask you - is there any scenario in your view where the very first speaker ( the prototype ) you don't build by yourself ?
because this particular speaker would be a lot of work. i never even built a regular stat and this one should be probably 4x more difficult to build.
i realize that to start building them is one way to start. but are there any other ways ? could i team up with somebody who would be more able to build that first one or few ? i would help as much as i can of course but i really don't want to go into this all by myself without any prior experience building ESLs.
know what i am saying ?
the reason i think this idea is the real deal is because it will both look like no speaker ever made ( not even close ) and might potentially sound better too. it is really hard to say how well it will sound in practice. in theory should be the best speaker ever but that's just theory - that's why a prototype must be built. if it does get built i would probably price it at around $100,000.
also i think its well suited for a start up project because it would mostly require hand work. should be possible to build the whole thing in somebody's basement. but i don't think i have the kind of craftsmanship that it would take to pull off with any reasonable tolerances.
design wise this speaker is INEVITABLE it is INESCAPABLE. somebody will build it sooner or later. the only question is once it is built - will it be associated with my name or somebody else's ? and i don't even want to b/s you and tell you how it was brilliant of me to think of it. i think others have thought about it and didn't build it because of the relative degree of difficulty of construction. and possibly the need for tweaking.
perhaps they didn't see it as worth the effort. but i do see it as worth it. if you gave an average person Martin Logan CLX speakers he would sell them on ebay the same day because it's bigger than his Bose and his bose already has "room filling sound". it is a matter of perspective.
the speaker would certainly be even more niche than regular stats. but regular stats are not THAT niche actually. i mean i saw several models of martin logan in a mainstream electronics box store ( Fry's Electronics ).
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if it does get built i would probably price it at around $100,000.
That's a start. Think about who's going to buy your product at that price. Nobody will buy a product in that price range from a unknown small basement company that no might go out of business in one year. You need connections, reviews, advertising the whole nine yards.
First I'd check if your idea is really that good (peer review, someone you can trust). If you still think it's that good you might consider selling it to ML or something.
That's a start. Think about who's going to buy your product at that price. Nobody will buy a product in that price range from a unknown small basement company that no might go out of business in one year. You need connections, reviews, advertising the whole nine yards.
First I'd check if your idea is really that good (peer review, someone you can trust). If you still think it's that good you might consider selling it to ML or something.
Hi Borat,
i fully agree to AJ. Nobody will buy a no name product. Customers with such a big money pocket will look for status and image first.
let me tell you, up to know it took me 5 years of hard and passioned work, more than 200 pairs of sold ESL to reach the point, where people start to consider Capaciti-ESL a alternative. Before nobody cared about a product beside the market leaders.
Capaciti
i fully agree to AJ. Nobody will buy a no name product. Customers with such a big money pocket will look for status and image first.
let me tell you, up to know it took me 5 years of hard and passioned work, more than 200 pairs of sold ESL to reach the point, where people start to consider Capaciti-ESL a alternative. Before nobody cared about a product beside the market leaders.
Capaciti
to Capacity and AJ:
i am not insane and i know you are making very good points. i didn't say the first speaker would sell for $100,000. even when Boeing built its 787 dreamliner the first few planes were sold at a lower cost than the subsequently built planes will be sold at.
to Capacity:
Capacity i am not familiar with your speakers ( link ? ) but i think the situation would be a little different because my speaker wouldn't actually be competing against any existing speaker. The same way as ESLs don't compete against dynamics.
but i am not trying to be argumentative. what is your suggestion ? what would you do ? ( other than having coffee and watching snow flakes
)
i am not insane and i know you are making very good points. i didn't say the first speaker would sell for $100,000. even when Boeing built its 787 dreamliner the first few planes were sold at a lower cost than the subsequently built planes will be sold at.
to Capacity:
Capacity i am not familiar with your speakers ( link ? ) but i think the situation would be a little different because my speaker wouldn't actually be competing against any existing speaker. The same way as ESLs don't compete against dynamics.
but i am not trying to be argumentative. what is your suggestion ? what would you do ? ( other than having coffee and watching snow flakes
)ML won't even build their own statements - why would they build my speaker which would be more difficult to build ?
they have a great business making extremely simple speakers and selling them for lots of $$$ and in huge ( for a high-end company ) volumes.
ML is now owned by some corporation. They only care about bottom line. Bottom line tends in the direction of Bose speakers - in other words build the speaker as cheaply as possible.
I have a different philosophy entirely. My philosophy is build the speaker RIGHT regardless of what it takes ( as long as it can actually be accomplished ) price it as high as you want and somebody will buy it provided that it really is the best speaker ever made, or at least the best speaker of its kind ever made. which should be easy because it would be the only speaker of its kind ever made.
i mean if you are really loaded with $$$ why would you want to buy Martin Logans ? Martin Logan is like Porsche - everybody has one. If you are truly rich you will want something more exotic - something one of a kind - like the car Hitler drove.
the only problem with selling that speaker should be convincing the customer that there really is no other speaker like it. i mean i know there isn't - but how does the customer know that ? but i could probably manage to do that.
if they bought my idea it would be to bury it, not to build it.
because if they built it they would be admitting that their CLX is not perfect. and why would they want to do that ?
right. i'll be working on that. but let's assume that it has passed that stage.
Borat,
go for it and don`t let the others discourage you, visualize the whole idea and work very hard to make it happen, I think it`s worth it.
The fact that it won`t be easy shouldn`t stop you. No business on this planet is easy to accomplish, but if you don`t give it a try, you will blame yourself for the rest of your life.
Hi end market isn`t really big and competitors will try to keep you out - another reason to do it.
go for it and don`t let the others discourage you, visualize the whole idea and work very hard to make it happen, I think it`s worth it.
The fact that it won`t be easy shouldn`t stop you. No business on this planet is easy to accomplish, but if you don`t give it a try, you will blame yourself for the rest of your life.
Hi end market isn`t really big and competitors will try to keep you out - another reason to do it.
Hi Borat,
it wasn't my intention to discourage you, but to point out what my eyperience, acting in this business, tells me.
Possibly you think "yeah, the germans are always in doubt of somethimg new" and in principle you are right, a lot of germans are !
But i am a passioned engineer, open for any new idea. I constantly try to re-invent the wheel regarding ESL-Speakers and more and more i have to learn, that there are principle limitations for this kind of speaker and that it gets harder to improve it further.
Well, if you are convinced that your concept is outperforming, share it with us to discuss. If you won't share it to the worldwide community, which i would understand, at least it would be interesting what is different to ESL currently avaiable on the market.
Capaciti
it wasn't my intention to discourage you, but to point out what my eyperience, acting in this business, tells me.
Possibly you think "yeah, the germans are always in doubt of somethimg new" and in principle you are right, a lot of germans are !
But i am a passioned engineer, open for any new idea. I constantly try to re-invent the wheel regarding ESL-Speakers and more and more i have to learn, that there are principle limitations for this kind of speaker and that it gets harder to improve it further.
Well, if you are convinced that your concept is outperforming, share it with us to discuss. If you won't share it to the worldwide community, which i would understand, at least it would be interesting what is different to ESL currently avaiable on the market.
Capaciti
Hi,
You need to know the potential customers and how to make them know You´re out there with a special product. The product itself should be of sufficient quality and look and feel, but in the end I´m convinced that the sonic quality is of much less importance than generally assumed. A good image sells much better than technical specs.
You or Your dealer/distributor needs to know the customer and the right people that can open doors for You. If You´re not familiar to the circle/scene Your customers are living in You couldn´t sell even the best product.
Expect potential customers to watch You several years, until they trust You to be a serious partner, who is doing serious business and who is still on the market tomorrow and of whom they will eventually buy. Don´t expect to sell in big numbers the first years. Be happy if You sell anything at all the first two years.
jauu
Calvin
ps: "but what if you're not having a psychotic episode ? "
Well, than for shure You don´t earn Your money in the HiFi-Business
You need to know the potential customers and how to make them know You´re out there with a special product. The product itself should be of sufficient quality and look and feel, but in the end I´m convinced that the sonic quality is of much less importance than generally assumed. A good image sells much better than technical specs.
You or Your dealer/distributor needs to know the customer and the right people that can open doors for You. If You´re not familiar to the circle/scene Your customers are living in You couldn´t sell even the best product.
Expect potential customers to watch You several years, until they trust You to be a serious partner, who is doing serious business and who is still on the market tomorrow and of whom they will eventually buy. Don´t expect to sell in big numbers the first years. Be happy if You sell anything at all the first two years.
jauu
Calvin
ps: "but what if you're not having a psychotic episode ? "
Well, than for shure You don´t earn Your money in the HiFi-Business
Hi Borat,
if i was in your Situation i would go two ways simultaneously to
prove the idea to myself: A practical and a theoretical approach.
Suggestions for practical approach:
1) What is the minimal prototype in effort and complexity
which is able to demonstrate that your principle is working ?
This prototype may be a compromise due to certain parameters
like dynamics or lower frequency limit e.g. .
Maybe this prototype does not have to be usable as a loudspeaker
at all... even that does not matter if it does the job and you
can show that it will likely be usable when refined, upsized or
whatever.
2) If differences between your expectations and the real behaviour
of the prototype occur:
Is a certain difference due to technical imperfection or is it
due to imperfection of the idea or theory behind ?
3) Improve/refine idea, theory, technical skills
4) -> 1): Build next prototype, which fills one ore more
of the gaps found so far.
Suggestions for theoretical approach:
1) Get every Literature related to your field of applied
science you can get. Read every patent applied in the field
over the last 200 years at least.
2) Prove: Is the Idea new ? A former application of related
ideas does not necessarily need to be a loudspeaker...
If the idea does not seem to be new entirely:
What aspects of your approach seem to be new ?
3) Exchange yourself with (really) skilled persons when possible
and discuss aspects of the problem.
4) When Idea proves valid and the explorative prototypes built so far
show consistent behaviour:
Build a "statement" prototype showing the properties of your
approach which are superior to the current state of the art.
-> What are these superior properties in terms of sound radiation ?
You can describe those properties without unveiling the
construct behind ... just to discuss the relevance of those
properties and hear different opinions.
Maybe in this forum if you like.
And then:
---------
Is a product based on your idea viable ?
- do you need a power station to operate it ?
- wear protective clothes (radioactivity?) while listening ?
- 1.5 tons of gold for conductors ?
- set up a special building to house it ?
- ...
One of these questions answered "yes" and the show is stopped.
When success seems reachable: Look for partners which support
you in those fields, where you need help
(e.g. production, craftsmanship, marketing).
Those steps mentioned above do not need to be taken in a fixed
sequence, but i think these are basically the steps to be taken.
Not to forget a concept to protect your intellectual property if
necessary.
Best regards
if i was in your Situation i would go two ways simultaneously to
prove the idea to myself: A practical and a theoretical approach.
Suggestions for practical approach:
1) What is the minimal prototype in effort and complexity
which is able to demonstrate that your principle is working ?
This prototype may be a compromise due to certain parameters
like dynamics or lower frequency limit e.g. .
Maybe this prototype does not have to be usable as a loudspeaker
at all... even that does not matter if it does the job and you
can show that it will likely be usable when refined, upsized or
whatever.
2) If differences between your expectations and the real behaviour
of the prototype occur:
Is a certain difference due to technical imperfection or is it
due to imperfection of the idea or theory behind ?
3) Improve/refine idea, theory, technical skills
4) -> 1): Build next prototype, which fills one ore more
of the gaps found so far.
Suggestions for theoretical approach:
1) Get every Literature related to your field of applied
science you can get. Read every patent applied in the field
over the last 200 years at least.
2) Prove: Is the Idea new ? A former application of related
ideas does not necessarily need to be a loudspeaker...
If the idea does not seem to be new entirely:
What aspects of your approach seem to be new ?
3) Exchange yourself with (really) skilled persons when possible
and discuss aspects of the problem.
4) When Idea proves valid and the explorative prototypes built so far
show consistent behaviour:
Build a "statement" prototype showing the properties of your
approach which are superior to the current state of the art.
-> What are these superior properties in terms of sound radiation ?
You can describe those properties without unveiling the
construct behind ... just to discuss the relevance of those
properties and hear different opinions.
Maybe in this forum if you like.
And then:
---------
Is a product based on your idea viable ?
- do you need a power station to operate it ?
- wear protective clothes (radioactivity?) while listening ?
- 1.5 tons of gold for conductors ?
- set up a special building to house it ?
- ...
One of these questions answered "yes" and the show is stopped.
When success seems reachable: Look for partners which support
you in those fields, where you need help
(e.g. production, craftsmanship, marketing).
Those steps mentioned above do not need to be taken in a fixed
sequence, but i think these are basically the steps to be taken.
Not to forget a concept to protect your intellectual property if
necessary.
Best regards
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