Cal Weldon said:
I guess it depends on what the manufacturer wants. They are listing several possible applications for this product, but probebly nothing for diy.
Anyway there are other threads about diy plasma speakers on this forum, so maybe someone figure out how this work and build something similar.
Just thought I should share the information about a new intriguing product (probebly just a prototype yet), and this is the place I've noticed most interest on plasma speakers.
I have to read the patent again, it is sparse on detail.
They mention three main things:
- electrostatic flow control
- electronic pulse control (PWM etc)
- controlling the audio at 3kv while the main flow is 14kv
It's unclear what they are doing exactly, since they say explicitly that the "triode" version (Gerald Shirley, etc.) is low efficiency.
This suggests a "pentode" sort of approach, although I didn't see that in a quick scan of the "patent".
Some more reading will show what they actually patented and didn't. I suspect that IF it works as advertised that there are some proprietary techniques involved in the physical implementations. They say almost nothing about that.
Looks like a modulated HV power supply in effect, but that too is somewhat unclear.
There is a popular air cleaner that is actually a wide spaced ionizing wire followed by stator plates at some distance - it uses a TV type flyback transformer for the HV which ionizes a distance of about 2" and corresponds to probably something on the order of 14kv mentioned in the patent fwiw... it produces a DC air flow, it's an electrostatic "fan" of sorts...
_-_-bear
They mention three main things:
- electrostatic flow control
- electronic pulse control (PWM etc)
- controlling the audio at 3kv while the main flow is 14kv
It's unclear what they are doing exactly, since they say explicitly that the "triode" version (Gerald Shirley, etc.) is low efficiency.
This suggests a "pentode" sort of approach, although I didn't see that in a quick scan of the "patent".
Some more reading will show what they actually patented and didn't. I suspect that IF it works as advertised that there are some proprietary techniques involved in the physical implementations. They say almost nothing about that.
Looks like a modulated HV power supply in effect, but that too is somewhat unclear.
There is a popular air cleaner that is actually a wide spaced ionizing wire followed by stator plates at some distance - it uses a TV type flyback transformer for the HV which ionizes a distance of about 2" and corresponds to probably something on the order of 14kv mentioned in the patent fwiw... it produces a DC air flow, it's an electrostatic "fan" of sorts...
_-_-bear
Yes, I wondered a few years ago, whether the ions from just such a source could be injected between stators energised with an audio signal, in place of the charged diaphragm usually employed in an ESL.
Of course, I have no idea what kind of charge density one could achieve this way, or how practical the idea is.
Ed
fan to face
I try with them to communicate on e-mail
In Russian.
Doubts that will answer
The similar purifying agent of air at me is. Blows air strongly
Doubts, that someone will want to listen to music with the fan to face.
In addition all domestic dust will settle on electrodes.
Apologies for my English. It is computer translation
Quality of a sound on low frequencies excellent should be.
Because a monopole
I try with them to communicate on e-mail
In Russian.
Doubts that will answer
The similar purifying agent of air at me is. Blows air strongly
Doubts, that someone will want to listen to music with the fan to face.
In addition all domestic dust will settle on electrodes.
Apologies for my English. It is computer translation
Quality of a sound on low frequencies excellent should be.
Because a monopole
I think dust could be eliminated by using a small amount of the HT to precipitate airbourne contaminants outside "the works" of the speaker. Or simply use a filter screen/grillecloth that is substantially transparent, acoustically speaking.
It's a natural for someone to DIY. A few years back, having a few moments spare and a small 10kV supply to hand, I tried to mock up the electrostatic fan principle. That worked easily, with a negatively charged fine wire and an anode made from a 1cm band of Al foil folded into a rectangle of ~1cm x10cm. This created a short channel, held a few mm from, and parallel to the "cathode" wire.
sort of like this, if viewed in section from above:
____
* >>>>> airflow
____
Apologies - the posting is not showing the spacing I added between the * used to denote the wire, and the parallel lines of the channel, which should appear further to the right..
Ed
It's a natural for someone to DIY. A few years back, having a few moments spare and a small 10kV supply to hand, I tried to mock up the electrostatic fan principle. That worked easily, with a negatively charged fine wire and an anode made from a 1cm band of Al foil folded into a rectangle of ~1cm x10cm. This created a short channel, held a few mm from, and parallel to the "cathode" wire.
sort of like this, if viewed in section from above:
____
* >>>>> airflow
____
Apologies - the posting is not showing the spacing I added between the * used to denote the wire, and the parallel lines of the channel, which should appear further to the right..
Ed
bear said:
Aah, the patented Zenion effect:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=NRcMAAAAEBAJ&dq=4789801
US patent 4789801 and European patent #0368858
The only thing truly new about that invention was the signal used to modulate it. A very strongly controlled HF signal that resulted in lots of anions being generated, with an absolute minimum of ozone generation. This was essential for marketing purposes, as most countries have strict regulations on how much ozone can be emitted by any device used in a room with live humans in it.
While the actual levels of ozone that are safe for humans is the subject of strong debate, this has resulted in the abandonment of many ionic/plasma loudspeaker dreams, and also the generation of some unique handlings like using helium, rather than the ambient air, as the ionized gas.
Many air purifiers has a special setting for use when people will not be in the room - a sort of deep cleaning of the air that can only be used (legally) while you are out of the house.
I tried to reach the patent holder many years ago (9 years?) about potential applications of applying a lower frequency modulation (20-20kHz?) to the existing HF modulation he was using, in order to make a loudspeaker.
I sent him several emails and never heard back.
I did see however that the Zenion website later included the sentence:
"This technology has also been utilized to create super high fidelity loud speakers."
...and while that website apparently has not been updated in 4 or 5 years, that text is still there:
http://www.zenion.com
The inventor (Jim Lee) has also announced that the patented effect was also being used for Radon gas mitigation and automotive fuel treatment.
My guess is that he has abandoned research on ALL of these other uses for his technology and is just living off of royalty checks from the Sharper Image, which sells about a grilllion Ionic Breeze air purifiers each year.
I DO believe that there is potential to make audio transducers from this technology, or some variant of it, but likely modulating at the higher end of the audio spectrum will interfere with his "effect" (lots of air movement and ions with little ozone) and modulating with low audio spectrum frequencies will result in a woofer that is too weak (by several orders of magnitude) to be useful.
Modulate this
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b6_1187215494
or, in Soviet Russia, high voltage modulate you! as they say...
here
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b6_1187215494
or, in Soviet Russia, high voltage modulate you! as they say...
here
Ulrich Haumanns site
-> "Plasma Speaker" -> The most in german language, but you can find i.e. schematics and more if you are patient ...
-> "Plasma Speaker" -> The most in german language, but you can find i.e. schematics and more if you are patient ...
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