Hi All,
Is anyone here using a Carver TFM series amp to drive their ESL's?
I'm almost finished my hybrid ESL project (will post pics soon) and I have a pair of Carver TFM25's for bi-amping with active X-overs. The esl trannys are 100:1 turns ratio. I've read that ESL's are a nasty load and I'm terrified they might smoke my beloved Carvers.
Anyone out there please share your expreriences here...
thanks,
Charlie
Is anyone here using a Carver TFM series amp to drive their ESL's?
I'm almost finished my hybrid ESL project (will post pics soon) and I have a pair of Carver TFM25's for bi-amping with active X-overs. The esl trannys are 100:1 turns ratio. I've read that ESL's are a nasty load and I'm terrified they might smoke my beloved Carvers.
Anyone out there please share your expreriences here...
thanks,
Charlie
It's a good question.
I used Carver TFM 15 (100 watt version) on the Magnepan SMGa (magneplanar & not a true ESL). They worked fine. Although when played loud they had some difficulty (they worked better with an Adcom GFA555 at higher levels). Bass was still shy however.
I used the same TFM on my Martin Logan Aerius (hybrid ESL: a closed box woofer with a ESL crossed at 500Hz). The TFM was fine at low levels, but the sound was not great at high levels (ultimately, I preferred my Adcom GFA 555). The issue about the dependence on level, is not entirely the fault of the amp, the martin logan aerius itself my have problems at high levels (loss of an "effortless and dynamic sound").
I think part of the problem folks have is that there is never enough bass (unless the panels are huge) and there are also serious headaches trying to get these properly positioned in the room. Consequently, some try to fix the problem by swapping amps.
I would not worry about harming the amp, the power supply & output devices are probably up to the task, unless the impedance really drops or is played really loud. I think the sound would distort sufficiently to give you ample warning.
I used Carver TFM 15 (100 watt version) on the Magnepan SMGa (magneplanar & not a true ESL). They worked fine. Although when played loud they had some difficulty (they worked better with an Adcom GFA555 at higher levels). Bass was still shy however.
I used the same TFM on my Martin Logan Aerius (hybrid ESL: a closed box woofer with a ESL crossed at 500Hz). The TFM was fine at low levels, but the sound was not great at high levels (ultimately, I preferred my Adcom GFA 555). The issue about the dependence on level, is not entirely the fault of the amp, the martin logan aerius itself my have problems at high levels (loss of an "effortless and dynamic sound").
I think part of the problem folks have is that there is never enough bass (unless the panels are huge) and there are also serious headaches trying to get these properly positioned in the room. Consequently, some try to fix the problem by swapping amps.
I would not worry about harming the amp, the power supply & output devices are probably up to the task, unless the impedance really drops or is played really loud. I think the sound would distort sufficiently to give you ample warning.
The more the better...
Charles give the Carver a try and see that's all you can do. With ESL's the general rule of thumb is the more ouput deviced and power supply you have the better. That said there are always exceptions to the rule (kind of) and different people have different expectations. I once ran a set of Eros panels in a hybrid set up with a pair of Antique Sound Labs Wave 8 mono blocks on the panels and they sounded very good and played a lot louder thann you would guess. So give the Carvers a try. When is ETA for lift off?
Charles give the Carver a try and see that's all you can do. With ESL's the general rule of thumb is the more ouput deviced and power supply you have the better. That said there are always exceptions to the rule (kind of) and different people have different expectations. I once ran a set of Eros panels in a hybrid set up with a pair of Antique Sound Labs Wave 8 mono blocks on the panels and they sounded very good and played a lot louder thann you would guess. So give the Carvers a try. When is ETA for lift off?
ETA for liftoff?
ETA for liftoff is not real clear right now. The kids are coming to spend their summer vacation with me so I expect the project will likely be delayed some more. The good news is that (except for some EQ components) I have everything needed to finish the project. One of the boxes is completed and the other one is almost done.
I haven't started on the esl panels yet but I have all the components. I still have to build a shelving EQ to compensate the dipole rolloff but that can be done after blast off. The perf metal I got from Russ looks to be about 50% or so open area with small enough holes that I should get max efficiency with 1/16 foam tape spacing. Still, I wish now I had designed for larger than 12x48 stators (effective driving area will be even less) Sanders' book recommends .070 minimum stator/diaphragm spacing so I also ordered some .013 double-sided tape which can be added to bring the spacing to .075" -- I still have to decide on .062 or .075 spacing. I won't be crossing over real low so I shouldn't need a lot of spacing but there will be those 10" woofers thumping in close proximity, which may tend to drive the diaphragms into the stators. Also, I need to figure out whether to tension the 6- micron diaphragms mechanically (somehow) or by heat-shrink or some combination thereof.
I'm really flying blind on this project because I've only ever heard an esl play once for a few minutes at low volume level and I don't have a feel for how much SPL can be produced by a given surface area. I've never been satisfied with the bass from any speaker I've ever owned (volume was ok but they've all sounded either boomy or somehow colored). I've never heard a TL speaker before but I'm expecting some very clean uncolored bass from this one-- my only concern is how well it blends and whether or not the esl panels are large enough to produce a decent SPL. I listen to traditional jazz, not rock, but I do like to crank it up on ocassion. If the panels are adequate, power should be adequate too: woofers and esl's will be driven separately by a pair of Carver high-current amps (225W/ch into 8 ohms or 450W/ch into 4 ohms). No matter what they sound like, I don't think I could muster the time and energy to do it over again.
by the way, it's good to hear all of you here!
Charlie
ETA for liftoff is not real clear right now. The kids are coming to spend their summer vacation with me so I expect the project will likely be delayed some more. The good news is that (except for some EQ components) I have everything needed to finish the project. One of the boxes is completed and the other one is almost done.
I haven't started on the esl panels yet but I have all the components. I still have to build a shelving EQ to compensate the dipole rolloff but that can be done after blast off. The perf metal I got from Russ looks to be about 50% or so open area with small enough holes that I should get max efficiency with 1/16 foam tape spacing. Still, I wish now I had designed for larger than 12x48 stators (effective driving area will be even less) Sanders' book recommends .070 minimum stator/diaphragm spacing so I also ordered some .013 double-sided tape which can be added to bring the spacing to .075" -- I still have to decide on .062 or .075 spacing. I won't be crossing over real low so I shouldn't need a lot of spacing but there will be those 10" woofers thumping in close proximity, which may tend to drive the diaphragms into the stators. Also, I need to figure out whether to tension the 6- micron diaphragms mechanically (somehow) or by heat-shrink or some combination thereof.
I'm really flying blind on this project because I've only ever heard an esl play once for a few minutes at low volume level and I don't have a feel for how much SPL can be produced by a given surface area. I've never been satisfied with the bass from any speaker I've ever owned (volume was ok but they've all sounded either boomy or somehow colored). I've never heard a TL speaker before but I'm expecting some very clean uncolored bass from this one-- my only concern is how well it blends and whether or not the esl panels are large enough to produce a decent SPL. I listen to traditional jazz, not rock, but I do like to crank it up on ocassion. If the panels are adequate, power should be adequate too: woofers and esl's will be driven separately by a pair of Carver high-current amps (225W/ch into 8 ohms or 450W/ch into 4 ohms). No matter what they sound like, I don't think I could muster the time and energy to do it over again.
by the way, it's good to hear all of you here!
Charlie
not to worry...
Charles just so you know the active driven area on an Acoustat panel is 6.75 x 43 inches so that's 290.25 sq inches. your panel is 12 x 48 inches so that is 576 sq inches. So your single panel is almost the area of two acoustat panels which make up a set of 0ne plus 0nes. The 0ne plus 0ne playing full range can play loud by most peoples standards and since you are running limited bandwidth you are laughing. The Acoustat's have a stator spacer of about 1/16 inch so you dont need more than that and could do fine with less. Slow and steady will win the race. Do a good job on the panels that is important.
Had I known before that you were planning to coat your own I would have strongly advised against that as an option. Not to say that you cannot make a safe working set but they will not be as uniform nor as well insulated nor will they look as good as if you had had Russ do the coating for you. Further Russ's panels would come with a warranty and yours now do not.
I am not trying to pick on you I just want to take this opportunity to remind others that coating your own perf metal stators is not as simple as it seems and most powder coaters will not do a much better job (aside from cosmetics) than the average DIYer will. You only get one chance to powder coat and if you mess it up you throw the panel away and start again. Spray cans rollers and brushes are a pita. Some folks have had success with a base coat of latex then a bunch of urathane top coats. Wagner may have suggestions in his book. Perhaps others here can comment on what worked. Even if they work don't go showing folks how safe they are by putting one hand on the back stator and one on the front while playing loud music. That's why I recommend a recognized pro coater do the job or simply use insulated wire stators. These things can kill.
Charles just so you know the active driven area on an Acoustat panel is 6.75 x 43 inches so that's 290.25 sq inches. your panel is 12 x 48 inches so that is 576 sq inches. So your single panel is almost the area of two acoustat panels which make up a set of 0ne plus 0nes. The 0ne plus 0ne playing full range can play loud by most peoples standards and since you are running limited bandwidth you are laughing. The Acoustat's have a stator spacer of about 1/16 inch so you dont need more than that and could do fine with less. Slow and steady will win the race. Do a good job on the panels that is important.
Had I known before that you were planning to coat your own I would have strongly advised against that as an option. Not to say that you cannot make a safe working set but they will not be as uniform nor as well insulated nor will they look as good as if you had had Russ do the coating for you. Further Russ's panels would come with a warranty and yours now do not.
I am not trying to pick on you I just want to take this opportunity to remind others that coating your own perf metal stators is not as simple as it seems and most powder coaters will not do a much better job (aside from cosmetics) than the average DIYer will. You only get one chance to powder coat and if you mess it up you throw the panel away and start again. Spray cans rollers and brushes are a pita. Some folks have had success with a base coat of latex then a bunch of urathane top coats. Wagner may have suggestions in his book. Perhaps others here can comment on what worked. Even if they work don't go showing folks how safe they are by putting one hand on the back stator and one on the front while playing loud music. That's why I recommend a recognized pro coater do the job or simply use insulated wire stators. These things can kill.
Coating the stators
Moray,
Thanks for the info on the Acoustats - - that's a relief.
About coating the stators, I'm pondering the following options:
Option 1:
Roll on multiple coats of latex house primer, then spray overcoat with a semi-gloss black Krilon or equivalent. Can possibly spray apply the latex primer if it has a sprayable viscosity.
Option 2:
Spray apply multiple coats of an automotive 2-part polyurethane primer and/or clearcoat, then overcoat with semi-gloss black Krilon.
Option 3:
Find a powder coater to double-coat the stators.
In any case, I will place the smooth side of the perf's toward the diaphragm and I won't use any coatings containing metallic oxide fillersm which might be conductive. Practically all black paints are colored with carbon-black, which is probably conductive, so I would only use black paint for the final topcoat. I do have an air compressor and spray guns if I opt for an automotive polyurethane. Too bad that paint manufacturer's don't show dielectric properties on the container labels-- I will research that to the extent that I can.
Any further advise is appreciated!
Moray,
Thanks for the info on the Acoustats - - that's a relief.
About coating the stators, I'm pondering the following options:
Option 1:
Roll on multiple coats of latex house primer, then spray overcoat with a semi-gloss black Krilon or equivalent. Can possibly spray apply the latex primer if it has a sprayable viscosity.
Option 2:
Spray apply multiple coats of an automotive 2-part polyurethane primer and/or clearcoat, then overcoat with semi-gloss black Krilon.
Option 3:
Find a powder coater to double-coat the stators.
In any case, I will place the smooth side of the perf's toward the diaphragm and I won't use any coatings containing metallic oxide fillersm which might be conductive. Practically all black paints are colored with carbon-black, which is probably conductive, so I would only use black paint for the final topcoat. I do have an air compressor and spray guns if I opt for an automotive polyurethane. Too bad that paint manufacturer's don't show dielectric properties on the container labels-- I will research that to the extent that I can.
Any further advise is appreciated!
Hi,
I would recommend not to use Krylon in black since Carbon black is one of the ingredients. So the stuff is conductive and you won´t want to have a conductive surface on your stator. Slightly dissipative ok, but not conductive! Very probabely the resistance against track buildup will be low too.
Apart from safety aspects such a conductive layer as top coat tends to ´explode away´ when a flashover occurs. Looks funny hen you have a basecoat of different color ;-)
If you want to use it though you have to encapsulte the ´conductive´ layer with a thick layer of eg. clear PU.
For Diy I´d recommend a modification of option 3.
Find a coater that powdercoats the sheets as thick and even as he can (100µm will be alot here already). A good powder is Rilsan and alikes.
A double coat with the first layer preferabely in white (or pure) and the second layer in the color of your choice -even black, but check the datasheets of the powder suppliers first!
Add to this a a rather thick clear wet coat of common PU laquer (used for staircases or naval applications) with at least 4 layers on each side (turning the panel 90° with each new layer, holding the spray nozzle ~45° tilted toward the surface to really get a thick coat over the edges of the sheet´s holes). It takes a lot of time and you waste much of the laquer (5-10L), but the result is a nice even thick and (!)safe(!) coating even if the sheets have not been sanded before.
This way the surface of the coating becomes the nicely rounded soft look one knows from ML panels and the panel is safe to touch (when all steps are really carefully and properly executed!)
Such a 2-material compound coating is probabely the best one can have for metal sheet stators.
jauuCalvin
I would recommend not to use Krylon in black since Carbon black is one of the ingredients. So the stuff is conductive and you won´t want to have a conductive surface on your stator. Slightly dissipative ok, but not conductive! Very probabely the resistance against track buildup will be low too.
Apart from safety aspects such a conductive layer as top coat tends to ´explode away´ when a flashover occurs. Looks funny hen you have a basecoat of different color ;-)
If you want to use it though you have to encapsulte the ´conductive´ layer with a thick layer of eg. clear PU.
For Diy I´d recommend a modification of option 3.
Find a coater that powdercoats the sheets as thick and even as he can (100µm will be alot here already). A good powder is Rilsan and alikes.
A double coat with the first layer preferabely in white (or pure) and the second layer in the color of your choice -even black, but check the datasheets of the powder suppliers first!
Add to this a a rather thick clear wet coat of common PU laquer (used for staircases or naval applications) with at least 4 layers on each side (turning the panel 90° with each new layer, holding the spray nozzle ~45° tilted toward the surface to really get a thick coat over the edges of the sheet´s holes). It takes a lot of time and you waste much of the laquer (5-10L), but the result is a nice even thick and (!)safe(!) coating even if the sheets have not been sanded before.
This way the surface of the coating becomes the nicely rounded soft look one knows from ML panels and the panel is safe to touch (when all steps are really carefully and properly executed!)
Such a 2-material compound coating is probabely the best one can have for metal sheet stators.
jauuCalvin
safeguard
I read somewhere that you would have to touch both stators at the same time to be in danger of electrocution. Is that true?
If that's the case, my beam-splitter cabinet design would allow completely isolating the rear stator with barrier screens attached to the side openings behind (and on each side of) the esl panel-- you'd have to see the design to follow me on this but I can make the rear stator inaccessible to touch with no problem.
Would isolating the rear stator eliminate the hazard?
I read somewhere that you would have to touch both stators at the same time to be in danger of electrocution. Is that true?
If that's the case, my beam-splitter cabinet design would allow completely isolating the rear stator with barrier screens attached to the side openings behind (and on each side of) the esl panel-- you'd have to see the design to follow me on this but I can make the rear stator inaccessible to touch with no problem.
Would isolating the rear stator eliminate the hazard?
What matters is where ig goes...
you can get a shock from either stator if the dielectric fails and you touch it there. If you have one hand on either stator and the insulation is too weak then you will receive full potential straight across your heart. That's tha part that you want to avoid.
If your insulation job is a good one then there will be no shock hazard at all the key word here is "if".
So perhaps you are starting to get some appreciation for the quirks of insulating perf metal. Mil spec insulated wire is tested and almost perfect (nothing is perfect). But you are where you are and I don't suppose that you have extra panel to experiment with? I would have Russ get his coater to do the job for you but that would be my choice. And people tell me that making wire stators is a pain. Well I guess it all depends upon your point of view. Calvin has current hands on with the newest dielectrics so his advice would be good.
you can get a shock from either stator if the dielectric fails and you touch it there. If you have one hand on either stator and the insulation is too weak then you will receive full potential straight across your heart. That's tha part that you want to avoid.
If your insulation job is a good one then there will be no shock hazard at all the key word here is "if".
So perhaps you are starting to get some appreciation for the quirks of insulating perf metal. Mil spec insulated wire is tested and almost perfect (nothing is perfect). But you are where you are and I don't suppose that you have extra panel to experiment with? I would have Russ get his coater to do the job for you but that would be my choice. And people tell me that making wire stators is a pain. Well I guess it all depends upon your point of view. Calvin has current hands on with the newest dielectrics so his advice would be good.
revised coating options
Moray, Calvin... you guys are a great asset!
I live alone (no kids in the house) and I will be using grills on the speakers so the shock hazard is minimized.
Russ would have sold me ready made panels cheaper and no doubt better than I can make them myself but part of the DIY attraction is the learning and the doing-- otherwise we'd all be opting for Martin Logans, right?
Calvin-- thanks for the tips, especially the non-conducting topcoat. I do have some spray painting experience so I may go that route after weighing cost and hassle of powder coating. I've now revised my options as follows:
Option 1 (can't do at home):
white powder coat + black powder coat + polyurethane clearcoats
Option 2 (can do at home):
black basecoat + 10-20 mils 2-part automotive polyurethane clearcoat (using a fast catalyst, all coats dry-sprayed and allowing gel-time between coats-- all to facilitate buildup on sharp edges)
Feel free to critique !!
Calvin-- can email pics of the one cabinet that's finished if you like-- cant figure out how to post them here.
Chaz
Moray, Calvin... you guys are a great asset!
I live alone (no kids in the house) and I will be using grills on the speakers so the shock hazard is minimized.
Russ would have sold me ready made panels cheaper and no doubt better than I can make them myself but part of the DIY attraction is the learning and the doing-- otherwise we'd all be opting for Martin Logans, right?
Calvin-- thanks for the tips, especially the non-conducting topcoat. I do have some spray painting experience so I may go that route after weighing cost and hassle of powder coating. I've now revised my options as follows:
Option 1 (can't do at home):
white powder coat + black powder coat + polyurethane clearcoats
Option 2 (can do at home):
black basecoat + 10-20 mils 2-part automotive polyurethane clearcoat (using a fast catalyst, all coats dry-sprayed and allowing gel-time between coats-- all to facilitate buildup on sharp edges)
Feel free to critique !!
Calvin-- can email pics of the one cabinet that's finished if you like-- cant figure out how to post them here.
Chaz
Hi,
You can post links or clickable Thumbnails to uploaded pics of Your stuff. Upload facilities are www.imageshack.us for example.
like this.
"My new babies"
the big ones
the little ones
jauu
Calvin
You can post links or clickable Thumbnails to uploaded pics of Your stuff. Upload facilities are www.imageshack.us for example.
like this.
"My new babies"An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the big ones
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the little ones
jauu
Calvin
Holy **** What a Setup!
Calvin,
That's some jaw-dropping setup you got there!
Are those dipole woofers? What are those amps?
I'm not sure if I did the link below correctly but there is a pic there of my hybrid esl minus the esl panel, which I havent built yet.
The woofer is a 10" Aurum Cantus MkII and the box is a 9ft tapered transmission line. The fwd edge of the box behind the esl is a "V" shaped beam-splitter -- the only means I could dream up to cram all that cabinet volume into a small footprint.
Charlie
Calvin,
That's some jaw-dropping setup you got there!
Are those dipole woofers? What are those amps?
I'm not sure if I did the link below correctly but there is a pic there of my hybrid esl minus the esl panel, which I havent built yet.
The woofer is a 10" Aurum Cantus MkII and the box is a 9ft tapered transmission line. The fwd edge of the box behind the esl is a "V" shaped beam-splitter -- the only means I could dream up to cram all that cabinet volume into a small footprint.
Charlie
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dang Calvin, you've been holding out on us! I think the last photos of your system I saw must have been several sets of speaker ago. How dramatic is the difference between the small and large systems?
Charlie, it looks like you're off to a great start as well. Very nice cabinet work. Based on what you've constructed so far I think you're going to end up very happy with the final result, no matter which esl panel construction technique you adopt.
I guess I'd better crawl back into my basement to continue my mdf sawdust creation project in an effort to keep up.
Few
Charlie, it looks like you're off to a great start as well. Very nice cabinet work. Based on what you've constructed so far I think you're going to end up very happy with the final result, no matter which esl panel construction technique you adopt.
I guess I'd better crawl back into my basement to continue my mdf sawdust creation project in an effort to keep up.
Few
Hi,
thanks, since this is a professional setup at the munic fair (pic of the big one) I´m not shure if more info about the system and setup in this forum would be regarded as advertisement.
Those systems are the culmination of my work as DIYer. Earlier ´evolutional steps´ can be found here too (search for Calvin, ESEL)
@CharlieM
Looks like real good woodwork!
You and Few got mail
jauu
Calvin
thanks, since this is a professional setup at the munic fair (pic of the big one) I´m not shure if more info about the system and setup in this forum would be regarded as advertisement.
Those systems are the culmination of my work as DIYer. Earlier ´evolutional steps´ can be found here too (search for Calvin, ESEL)
@CharlieM
Looks like real good woodwork!
You and Few got mail
jauu
Calvin
The big goof
Thanks guys for the compliments on the woodwork. It started out as 3/4 mdf boxes I drew up in Delta Cad. I was originally gonna just tack on some oak trim for the front frame/baffle board and paint the rest. Then I got carried away and glued down 5mm red oak plywood on all surfaces, then trimmed-out the edges with strips of red oak planking. This improved the looks and the added thickness and ridgidity (.95" walls) likely reduced box resonances too. It definitely was not an easy task to build these boxes... all the glue-ups and egding was incredibly tedious and time consuming. I didn't have enough clamps so I ended up using concrete cinder blocks as hold-down weights to glue on the plywood.
BIG GOOF:
[very fatigued] I did something incredibly careless and stupid last night when trimming the stator pieces on the bandsaw. I had the oversize perf pieces leaning against the workbench and the saw fence set to trim 2" off the width. Somehow during this process, I actually grabbed one of the pieces I had already trimmed and run it through the saw a second time!!! (what an idiot, I'm saying to myself). I had a really hard time getting hold of this material too... now I'll have to find another piece of the same perf material to finish the project.
Thanks guys for the compliments on the woodwork. It started out as 3/4 mdf boxes I drew up in Delta Cad. I was originally gonna just tack on some oak trim for the front frame/baffle board and paint the rest. Then I got carried away and glued down 5mm red oak plywood on all surfaces, then trimmed-out the edges with strips of red oak planking. This improved the looks and the added thickness and ridgidity (.95" walls) likely reduced box resonances too. It definitely was not an easy task to build these boxes... all the glue-ups and egding was incredibly tedious and time consuming. I didn't have enough clamps so I ended up using concrete cinder blocks as hold-down weights to glue on the plywood.
BIG GOOF:
[very fatigued] I did something incredibly careless and stupid last night when trimming the stator pieces on the bandsaw. I had the oversize perf pieces leaning against the workbench and the saw fence set to trim 2" off the width. Somehow during this process, I actually grabbed one of the pieces I had already trimmed and run it through the saw a second time!!! (what an idiot, I'm saying to myself). I had a really hard time getting hold of this material too... now I'll have to find another piece of the same perf material to finish the project.
Charlie--
Sorry to hear about the mistake---I made a couple of my own yesterday. I try to cheer myself up by saying the only way to avoid any such mistakes is sit around and design things rather than actually build them. I figure it's better to be brave and accept the little humility reminders that come along with the process.
Calvin--
Thanks very much for the extra details. You said:
Few
Sorry to hear about the mistake---I made a couple of my own yesterday. I try to cheer myself up by saying the only way to avoid any such mistakes is sit around and design things rather than actually build them. I figure it's better to be brave and accept the little humility reminders that come along with the process.
Calvin--
Thanks very much for the extra details. You said:
Can you clarify where I should search? diyAudio or elsewhere? I'd like to learn more about what you've done. Very impressive.
Few
Hi,
@Few
Yeah, at DIY-Audio under ´ESL´ and http://www.elektrostaten-forum.de/index.php
(eiskaltes_Händchen and purist)
Apart from the models that we produce for show-and-tell (distributors and retailers) the ESLs are manufactured on customer order only.
We are able to react very flexible on customers wishes with regard to color, features and electronics, so if there´s a special interest please contact me or http://www.ami-hifi.de/frameset.html
We are still working on the update of the website. Hope it´ll be updated within 2 weeks. I´ve nearly finished the texts for the ESLs.
And now back to DIY
jauu
Calvin
@Few
Yeah, at DIY-Audio under ´ESL´ and http://www.elektrostaten-forum.de/index.php
(eiskaltes_Händchen and purist)
Apart from the models that we produce for show-and-tell (distributors and retailers) the ESLs are manufactured on customer order only.
We are able to react very flexible on customers wishes with regard to color, features and electronics, so if there´s a special interest please contact me or http://www.ami-hifi.de/frameset.html
We are still working on the update of the website. Hope it´ll be updated within 2 weeks. I´ve nearly finished the texts for the ESLs.
And now back to DIY
jauu
Calvin
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