As usual, I'm late to the party. I stumbled on this a few months ago. It looks promising, but I've not tried it myself:
Desco - 10415 Reztore(R) Topical Antistat, 1 Quart
And digikey:
10435 Desco | Static Control, ESD, Clean Room Products | DigiKey
Sheldon
Desco - 10415 Reztore(R) Topical Antistat, 1 Quart
And digikey:
10435 Desco | Static Control, ESD, Clean Room Products | DigiKey
Sheldon
When building ESLS became popular in Holland (some decades ago because of the book written by E. Fikier), metalized film was the most popular choice as there was nothing else to buy. Later people started to buy clear Mylar sheets, or they chemically etched away the aluminium and put another conductive layer on it by themselves.
I hope you enjoy this type of film ofcourse, but many people have reported the aluminium evaporating over time. The salesman at that time recommended to change the polarity of the high voltage supply (if I remember correctly he proposed to use a + voltage instead of a - voltage but I have to look this up to be sure). I cant tell you whether this is an effective way to deal with it but you might give it a chance when you observe any problems.
i think it is not a permanent coating
You may be right but consider the following:
The Desco website describes it as a "hard coat". And it would typically be used on work surfaces subject to wear. In that context it would have to be considered "temporary". Conversely; it could be permanent on surfaces not subject to wear, like an ESL diaphragm.
I found the following statement in a description of the product on the Desco website:
"Reztore® Topical Antistat will enhance existing electrical properties of ESD surfaces and give non-ESD surfaces electrical properties until the hard coat is worn away."
I have a speaker project planned in the coming months so I may give it a try.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A pattern of conductive lines and a relatively "bad" coating of type soap or other detergent that drops in performance caoused by too high resistivity.
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Dish soap can work great, with added carbon, gives Vary high output....
Well if you live in the real world, an don't think that any Diyer can even make a panel that well last for ever. An keep its output at 80-100% with out opening an cleaning an adding new soap coating, the panels every two are three years...
Looks to me only one panel maker ,Acoustat ,full rang also,seems to work for ever, with out opening..Well over 30 years... at 80-90%output....
jim Strickland...did use soap,shampoo as coating...but found it would not last ,so went to a Ampex magnetic tape... carbon type coating, with a large gap....look like a 1/4" but it not...but bigger than any diyer I have seen,thick mylar,heaver coat....cant see though...
Martin logns capacitor mylar type,would be the next best mylar,not chep like us diy guys like...but you still need to open the panels every 5-10 years, an clean an add a little soap,cabon for full 80-95% output.
All just one mans finding
What up with the pic posting like this...anyone know?? I only see this now an then....funky
that is because the soap (bad in my opinion) is based on humidity . so it ends somewhere. i had panels that i needed to recoat after a month or so 7 years back. why acoustat works is they use a base material that conducts, carbon. if you burn anything it ends usually as carbon so there is not much you can do to screw it up. its just what it is. a conductive material. it can fall off or something or get dirty and change resistance but it will conduct. as long as it remains on the foil. adhesion there are plenty options that work even on mylar acrylic works rather well. but good wettening and dispersion of carbon within the medium.... thats hard. using to much alcohol makes it disperse really well and you can get rather good conduction. but getting it evenly is hard again.
i do plan on diving into this crappy thing again soon. i must fix my esl63 within the next 5 years hahai was planning on using dish soap as a way of lowering surface tension but since it conducts...... that might be a bad choice. hmmm since then i dont know what i am measuring loading of carbon or the soap. or both....
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Well out of what I see...the soap & carbon mix, can get the job done..an yes its temporary,
But less someone can build a panel that wont pick up dust...like a magnet.I say make the panels so thay can be open....cleaned & an recoated....works for me...
But for the non-open type...looks like Jazzman,an others have done great with licron.
If I were ever to make sale ESL Speakers....replacement panels would have be free ..
Martin logan sales speaker for over $50k...warranty: 5 years (with product registration).....boy that make you feel great.....right.
But I guess if I had the money....like that for ESLs....I would just need a reason too get new speakers....
I guess not haveing that kind of cash....I don't see the Big pic...
But am Vary glad& thankful, ML makes great ESL speaker....I have a pr of CLS an Ascent I ,speakers here playing today that just a little soap& key hole carbon dust has them working as good if not better than new.....the CLS have panels that are over 28 years old an I can get full output with a pr of Dynaco MK3s 60 watt tube amps....
But less someone can build a panel that wont pick up dust...like a magnet.I say make the panels so thay can be open....cleaned & an recoated....works for me...
But for the non-open type...looks like Jazzman,an others have done great with licron.
If I were ever to make sale ESL Speakers....replacement panels would have be free ..
Martin logan sales speaker for over $50k...warranty: 5 years (with product registration).....boy that make you feel great.....right.
But I guess if I had the money....like that for ESLs....I would just need a reason too get new speakers....
I guess not haveing that kind of cash....I don't see the Big pic...
But am Vary glad& thankful, ML makes great ESL speaker....I have a pr of CLS an Ascent I ,speakers here playing today that just a little soap& key hole carbon dust has them working as good if not better than new.....the CLS have panels that are over 28 years old an I can get full output with a pr of Dynaco MK3s 60 watt tube amps....
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This is what I use now:
It plays very well, is dry, no coating at all. Only thing I needed to do is to remove the 'gold-paint' at the point where the coppertape makes the connection to the mylar.
You can remove the paint with 'thinner' and clean off the gold-paint till you see the aluminium layer.
That's all....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It plays very well, is dry, no coating at all. Only thing I needed to do is to remove the 'gold-paint' at the point where the coppertape makes the connection to the mylar.
You can remove the paint with 'thinner' and clean off the gold-paint till you see the aluminium layer.
That's all....
Yesterday I had a kind of first aid training and such blanket was lying around. I am used to the feel of 6 and 4 micron films in my hands so I was curious about this blanket. My impression it is way thicker than 6 micron. I guess it will be at least 12 micron.
Many years ago, I replaced the membranes in a pair of Audiostatic ES 300, using 12 uM metalized rescue blanket.
As far as I know, they are still working.
Another thing I've noticed over the years is to keep the bias voltage as low as possible, which prolongs the life of the membrane/coating.
if you look them up common thickness is 20 or 12 i believe. so 12 at best
Low bias dose not sound as good!.....an who cares how long thay last if you can find amp to drive them....less with some BIG SS amp....I think ESL need to be drive with tube amps to sound there best.....
Sound lab, are what most say are the best being made to day....you can set there bias every time you play them if you like...
All just one mans finding.....have fun...get good sound..with any panels
Sound lab, are what most say are the best being made to day....you can set there bias every time you play them if you like...
All just one mans finding.....have fun...get good sound..with any panels
well i did some testing with coating again this is soooo not cool to do. i ******* hate it
well what works best so far is some nasty chemicals
The water based version keeps giving me problems.
The water based version was:
Carbon black Ink or carbon black EMF coating. with soem acrylic as binder and window cleaner for in cars as diklutant. i tried alcohol to but the thing is it makes the EMF coating fall apart so a some conent in there is not soluble in alcohol apparently.
also it keeps pluggin my spray nozzle. and above all it also has a wrong surface tension.... and does not wet the mylar well, when it dries it want to pull all wetted area to one place then dry there with all pigment being removed from the other places.
So that sounds like a complete nightmare. (actually is)
option 2 i already did few years back is the more smelly Polyurethane based coating.
It is based on raw dry carbon black, PU one competent version, and thinner. PU is soluble by the thinner. so far so good. now the biggest issue. disperse the dry carbon black into solution.
I tried making a thick paste with some PU and carbon before thinning it down (like painters and cooks do). it works sort of most of it will end up into solution 90%- 95%. but there are some tiny lumbs or maybe even slightly thicker particles that make the surface area not as smooth as i wished. any one have a good idea to better disperse the carbon ? and maybe use a screen to get the last thicker stuff out ?
it is not thick enough to plug my airbrush so they are not HUGE, but it leaves a relief on the coating when it is dry (easily swiped away with a towel)
with 2 coats i get around 2Mohm-5Meg on my Megger, pretty close to the quad. but theres feels smoother and thinner. so i might need to tweak some more.
this is soooo not cool to do. i ******* hate it well what works best so far is some nasty chemicals
The water based version keeps giving me problems.
The water based version was:
Carbon black Ink or carbon black EMF coating. with soem acrylic as binder and window cleaner for in cars as diklutant. i tried alcohol to but the thing is it makes the EMF coating fall apart so a some conent in there is not soluble in alcohol apparently.
also it keeps pluggin my spray nozzle. and above all it also has a wrong surface tension.... and does not wet the mylar well, when it dries it want to pull all wetted area to one place then dry there with all pigment being removed from the other places.
So that sounds like a complete nightmare. (actually is)
option 2 i already did few years back is the more smelly Polyurethane based coating.
It is based on raw dry carbon black, PU one competent version, and thinner. PU is soluble by the thinner. so far so good. now the biggest issue. disperse the dry carbon black into solution.
I tried making a thick paste with some PU and carbon before thinning it down (like painters and cooks do). it works sort of most of it will end up into solution 90%- 95%. but there are some tiny lumbs or maybe even slightly thicker particles that make the surface area not as smooth as i wished. any one have a good idea to better disperse the carbon ? and maybe use a screen to get the last thicker stuff out ?
it is not thick enough to plug my airbrush so they are not HUGE, but it leaves a relief on the coating when it is dry (easily swiped away with a towel)
with 2 coats i get around 2Mohm-5Meg on my Megger, pretty close to the quad. but theres feels smoother and thinner. so i might need to tweak some more.
wrinex..... thanks for all your work an a good info.....
I like the ML capacitors type mylar the best...just a small wipe of soap&carbon mix.....get it going ....maybe this foil will work the same....the thing... I don't like about the Liycron or other permanent type coating is you cant clean it off ezaly....with the ML capacitors medaliz mylar...it so eaze to work with
But I bet it cost..must be, no one has used it in Diy...
I like the ML capacitors type mylar the best...just a small wipe of soap&carbon mix.....get it going ....maybe this foil will work the same....the thing... I don't like about the Liycron or other permanent type coating is you cant clean it off ezaly....with the ML capacitors medaliz mylar...it so eaze to work with
But I bet it cost..must be, no one has used it in Diy...
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