Hi Jonas,
I already googled ... let me say all the day, but no useful info found from Google search engine.
I looked for "Opening Martin Logan panel", "taking apart martin logna panel", electro static panel dismount" and also "ES panel dismount".
But nothing of interest I get out.
Anyway, I will keep note of new Mylar available from you.
Many thanks
Regards, Andrea
I already googled ... let me say all the day, but no useful info found from Google search engine.
I looked for "Opening Martin Logan panel", "taking apart martin logna panel", electro static panel dismount" and also "ES panel dismount".
But nothing of interest I get out.
Anyway, I will keep note of new Mylar available from you.
Many thanks
Regards, Andrea
Hi Jonas, thanks a lot!!!!
You gave me the right link I was looking for !
->)
Now I have the instruction on how to disassemble the panels.
By the way, regarding the Mylar you can provide, is it ITO sputtered as the original Martin Logan?
Have you any detail you can share with me to better let me understand the pros and cons of replacing the current film with your new?
Thanks and regards,
Andrea
You gave me the right link I was looking for !
->)Now I have the instruction on how to disassemble the panels.
By the way, regarding the Mylar you can provide, is it ITO sputtered as the original Martin Logan?
Have you any detail you can share with me to better let me understand the pros and cons of replacing the current film with your new?
Thanks and regards,
Andrea
it's the sputtered orignal one.
If the original film is in good shape, without pinholes and wrinkles,
try to keep it.
Mounting a new film isnt easy without the apparatus shown here:
Martin-Logan repair on stretching and lifting jig. Showing glueing and stretching procedure. - YouTube
If the original film is in good shape, without pinholes and wrinkles,
try to keep it.
Mounting a new film isnt easy without the apparatus shown here:
Martin-Logan repair on stretching and lifting jig. Showing glueing and stretching procedure. - YouTube
Is it possible to recoat the mylar without removing the stator?
Hello Friends,
I realized that the most complex step is the removal of the front stator (at least that one should be taken apart).
Because I highly fearing to damage my "still perfect" mylar film, and because my ES panels are still someway working, I would try first to spray some ESD conductive coating fluid through the front stator grid.
What I am supposing is that, even if not layered uniformy on the mylar, at least the 70% of the mylar surface would get it and increase its local conductivity.
So, my final expected result should be to get a sub-optimal but better then the current coated surface.
Of course, I am also planning to promptly remove the ESD coating sprayed onto the front start grid, and to put some protective tape strips onto the spacers bands, so that (statistically speaking) the ESD coating sprayed through the stator grid should not affect that critical areas.
Anybody did it before?
Anydody would give me his/her opinion and foreseeneable issues?
Many thanks and kind regards,
Andrea.
Hello Friends,
I realized that the most complex step is the removal of the front stator (at least that one should be taken apart).
Because I highly fearing to damage my "still perfect" mylar film, and because my ES panels are still someway working, I would try first to spray some ESD conductive coating fluid through the front stator grid.
What I am supposing is that, even if not layered uniformy on the mylar, at least the 70% of the mylar surface would get it and increase its local conductivity.
So, my final expected result should be to get a sub-optimal but better then the current coated surface.
Of course, I am also planning to promptly remove the ESD coating sprayed onto the front start grid, and to put some protective tape strips onto the spacers bands, so that (statistically speaking) the ESD coating sprayed through the stator grid should not affect that critical areas.
Anybody did it before?
Anydody would give me his/her opinion and foreseeneable issues?
Many thanks and kind regards,
Andrea.
Sounds risky to me. I'm no expert but it seems to me that everywhere that spray lands becomes conductive, and spraying thru the stator would likely coat the edges of the spacers too; creating shorting paths from diaphragm to stator.
Has anyone every tried this??
I have put Dish soap on the mylar though panels with a spra bottel... an then wash the panels an leve some soap on the panels an let dry...
I find [most] of the low out panels... it the bias feed....
Dust an crud has piled up on the right side where the Mylar an The one copper bias feed is...goodluck
I find [most] of the low out panels... it the bias feed....
Dust an crud has piled up on the right side where the Mylar an The one copper bias feed is...goodluck
Andrea
Since you cannot touch and clean the surface before spraying, this would be a mistake even if your not expecting 100% results.
If now you expect poor results and will eventually pull it apart to do it right, then you don,t have much to loose since you can correct your theory
Regards
David
Since you cannot touch and clean the surface before spraying, this would be a mistake even if your not expecting 100% results.
If now you expect poor results and will eventually pull it apart to do it right, then you don,t have much to loose since you can correct your theory
Regards
David
Assuming you can get the sators apart without damaging the diaphragms, which looks do-able from the previous link and pics by merely cutting thru the foam tape with an exacto-knife-- I think all you need to do then is carefully clean the diaphragm with alchohol, mask off the periphery edges, and apply 1 wet coat of Licron Crystal. Let it dry for about 4 hours or so and reassemble the panel. I'm thinking you could leave the original foam tape in-place and just apply a thin layer of contact adhesive to the cut-thru surfaces to stick them back together. Good luck with it!
So you say
I'm thinking you could leave the original foam tape in-place and just apply a thin layer of contact adhesive to the cut-thru surfaces to stick them back together. Good luck with it!
Sound right.....but ....i never glue my panels back ...the ML Speakers make it eze for this the rales hold the panels ...I use tape on the left an right sides were u cant see it...4 peaces pr side....
1. You can open an clen agin..
2. ML side rales hold the panels togather..
3. If you do glue if you never need to open again...50% or higher you well rip the mylar...you may say never need to open again..never say never..
I have done 12 of this type of panels an this setup works great....an after you hear what a diff it makes in SPL output..
.I clean my panels about every 6-8weeks... from my standpoint NO ESL panels have to be glued togather thay all well need cleaning if you wont full output...An I Do..
Once these ML panel have the new bias feeds an new coting ...eze 6db more output....goodluck
I'm thinking you could leave the original foam tape in-place and just apply a thin layer of contact adhesive to the cut-thru surfaces to stick them back together. Good luck with it!
Sound right.....but ....i never glue my panels back ...the ML Speakers make it eze for this the rales hold the panels ...I use tape on the left an right sides were u cant see it...4 peaces pr side....
1. You can open an clen agin..
2. ML side rales hold the panels togather..
3. If you do glue if you never need to open again...50% or higher you well rip the mylar...you may say never need to open again..never say never..
I have done 12 of this type of panels an this setup works great....an after you hear what a diff it makes in SPL output..
.I clean my panels about every 6-8weeks... from my standpoint NO ESL panels have to be glued togather thay all well need cleaning if you wont full output...An I Do..
Once these ML panel have the new bias feeds an new coting ...eze 6db more output....goodluck
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Little update to this matter. The output and the feel of dynamics have been gradually going sligtly downwards during the ~three months I have had the licron coating. Last month something has bothered me, kind of feeling that the sound is losing it's strenght and torgue, transients do not snap like they used to and the sound is slightly uninvolving. The neon lamp blinkin speed has declined from once per 2 seconds to once per 30 seconds during this time. Also the initial charge rush blinking burst is not occuring anymore at the start up.
Right after I added ER audio's coating over the licron, all the things went back to quite normal. The neon lamp blinking speed increased to once per 7 seconds, there is clear initial fast blinking and charge rush to the membrane, output and dynamics are greater, the sound is more aggressive and involving again etc. It seems clear to me that Licron's rising resistance is the cause, and it went back to more optimal region with ER audio's coating.
Maybe the application style with sponge/cloth piece is causing this? People spraying on the Licron have not experience this to my knowledge.
I was thinking to counteract this this by adding graphite to the licron. I don't mind "lower than optimal" surface resistance as long as it's over 10^6. Any ideas how much should I add graphite to get 10^6-10^8 resistance? Or would it be better to first rub the graphite to the membrane and then seal it in there with a layer of Licron/ER audio coating?
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I think that if you put the graphite on first it may reduce the Crystal's ability to bond to the mylar.
I typically use two coats of the stuff or one good heavy coat as it cures so thin.
I think one of the first times I had tried it, it had done the same thing to one of my diagphrams.
The reason that I had to swab it up was becuase it started to bead and separate a little bit.
So since then I give them a pretty good first coat and a quick lite one If I felt the need for it.
And haven't had a problem since.
I have done about 8 small diaphragms using Crystal so far.
I have had to replace a few do too holes burned in them.
My last panel ran flawlessly even after two years of no use....until I burned it up.
I think that it is pretty clear as is, but diluting it to make it more clear may reduce it's performance this is something that many including myself would like to experiment with.
To add graphite to it you would need an extremely super super fine grade I would think as it cures on the order of just a few microns of thickness.
Thinning it more may be borderline of whether or not it will work at all.
It would be interesting to find out though as I have had the same thoughts myself only the risk of having a lower resistance bothers me some.
I have had a cracking problem with the Licron regular stuff before but it is a much more brittle product (as well as thicker) when it cures but it is very durable as well.
Here is a link to some pictures of a 9 year old diaphragm using Licron on this very same subject.
What coating material do you use for your ESL?
jer )
I typically use two coats of the stuff or one good heavy coat as it cures so thin.
I think one of the first times I had tried it, it had done the same thing to one of my diagphrams.
The reason that I had to swab it up was becuase it started to bead and separate a little bit.
So since then I give them a pretty good first coat and a quick lite one If I felt the need for it.
And haven't had a problem since.
I have done about 8 small diaphragms using Crystal so far.
I have had to replace a few do too holes burned in them.
My last panel ran flawlessly even after two years of no use....until I burned it up.
I think that it is pretty clear as is, but diluting it to make it more clear may reduce it's performance this is something that many including myself would like to experiment with.
To add graphite to it you would need an extremely super super fine grade I would think as it cures on the order of just a few microns of thickness.
Thinning it more may be borderline of whether or not it will work at all.
It would be interesting to find out though as I have had the same thoughts myself only the risk of having a lower resistance bothers me some.
I have had a cracking problem with the Licron regular stuff before but it is a much more brittle product (as well as thicker) when it cures but it is very durable as well.
Here is a link to some pictures of a 9 year old diaphragm using Licron on this very same subject.
What coating material do you use for your ESL?
jer )
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I was going to get a big bag of Elvamide back in 2003 for like $10 or $20.
But I never did because I discovered Licron at the time.
I would have to do some searching to find a vender again but I found them through a Dupount engineer that I was in contact with back then.
From what I have read is that dissolving some nylon(66) in Phenol is nearly (if not) the same thing.
I have read that some have even used nylon fishing line but I don't remember which type it was.
jer
But I never did because I discovered Licron at the time.
I would have to do some searching to find a vender again but I found them through a Dupount engineer that I was in contact with back then.
From what I have read is that dissolving some nylon(66) in Phenol is nearly (if not) the same thing.
I have read that some have even used nylon fishing line but I don't remember which type it was.
jer
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