High Wattage Electrostatic Loudspeakers
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 Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

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 9th August 2007, 08:05 PM #1 ak_47_boy   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Sep 2006 High Wattage Electrostatic Loudspeakers Say you had a 100watt amplifier, 1kw amplifier, and a panel with a 100:1 step up transformer. The final drive voltage would be 2800v for the 100watt amp and 9000v for the 1kw. The 1kw will obviously be able to play louder but will it actually be using 100mA @ 9000v? I don't understand where 1kw of power goes. It's not heat or sound.
 9th August 2007, 09:51 PM #2 SY   On Hiatus     Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Actually, heat and sound are exactly where it goes. An ESL is a big capacitor. To get from zero to some voltage requires current. To get from zero to that voltage even faster takes more current. Now, when it's time to go back to zero, the higher the available current, the faster it can happen. But where does that current go? Yes, right back to the amplifier. Being reactive, to a first approximation the speaker absorbs no power, but the amp does. And that's where the heat goes; remember power factor, too. Now, when we refine the approximation, we can see where the sound energy goes, but it's still a small proportion of the electrical energy that the amplifier needs to source and sink charging currents. It's an interesting exercise to calculate how much current it would take to drive a 1nF capacitor (a typical ESL value) at 20kHz. __________________ "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
 10th August 2007, 12:56 AM #3 ak_47_boy   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Sep 2006 Wow that actually works out to 8 ohms.
 13th August 2007, 08:34 PM #4 Eva   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Near the sea A class D amplifier would be a good alternative for driving a highly reactive load because all the reactive energy is returned back to the PSU. In case of a capacitive load (ESL), the amplifier may be designed so that the load forms part of the output LC filter (although the resonance that results when the step-up transformer is added has to be tuned to avoid trouble). __________________ I use to feel like the small child in The Emperor's New Clothes tale
I_Forgot
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Az.
Quote:
 Originally posted by Eva A class D amplifier would be a good alternative for driving a highly reactive load because all the reactive energy is returned back to the PSU. In case of a capacitive load (ESL), the amplifier may be designed so that the load forms part of the output LC filter (although the resonance that results when the step-up transformer is added has to be tuned to avoid trouble).
Alternatively, you could do class D and use an HV output bridge to drive the panel directly. You'd need some high voltage switches and they'd have to be fast. I don't know if there are such devices anywhere.

I_F

 15th August 2007, 06:10 AM #6 Calvin   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: close to Basel Hi, Yeah, a HV-D-amp would be fine thing. But apart from the parts prob YouŽll probabely get into serious trouble with those aliens in the 17 quadrant near Wega-colony who simply are not into human music That thing would rather be a strong emv-sender jauu Calvin
 15th August 2007, 06:41 AM #7 phase_accurate diyAudio Member   Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland I agree that a purpose-built class-d would be great for driving ESLs. But I am afraid that we might not be able to do a "classic" class-d amp that is capable of doing the desired voltage swing. I once consulted someone who was developing an amp intended to drive piezo actuators up to 1000 volts. The idea of an ordinary class-d half-bridge was given up quite quickly due to the huge voltage swings involved and the subsequent high snubber losses. He then built a topology of multiple low(er)-voltage class-d amps that add up their voltages. I don't know if he even did them in some multiphase modulation scheme which would further reduce ripple (or make lower switching frequencies and therefore lower switching losses feasible). A mutlibit (i.e. multi voltage output stage) delta-sigma topology might be quite cool as well ! The RF transmission problem could however be minimised IMO using conventional methods. Regards Charles
mzzj
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 65N 25E
Quote:
 Originally posted by I_Forgot Alternatively, you could do class D and use an HV output bridge to drive the panel directly. You'd need some high voltage switches and they'd have to be fast. I don't know if there are such devices anywhere. I_F
Too bad that 6.5kV IGBT's are availlable only with insane current ratings. Probably too slow, too.

Stack of low current 600-1200v mosfets would be "intresting" for switching ~6kV .

 23rd August 2007, 07:44 AM #9 Elvee   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Sep 2006 There is an alternative I've already proposed, based on high frequency transformers and phase modulation: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=93433
 23rd August 2007, 07:48 AM #10 phase_accurate diyAudio Member   Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland I completely forgot about that. It is a clever idea indeed ! Regards Charles

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 Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post JonnySwitchblade Solid State 7 4th July 2007 03:18 AM Nordic Multi-Way 5 4th September 2005 11:12 PM phishead8 Planars & Exotics 5 9th May 2002 06:38 PM

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