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Old 12th March 2008, 01:56 PM   #401
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnixMan
If the incoming SPDIF stream is already in sync with the local DAC clock, the reconstructed clock can (and MUST!) be discarded altogether and the clean local one used instead.

Otherwise, the whole thing of sending the clock back and synchronizing the source to it would be completely pointless...
Oh definitely. The only issue I would worry is phase shift of the incoming data to the original clock signal, potentially causing incorrect level detection. I would still throw in a short buffer to remove the time shift. But that is trivial.
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Old 12th March 2008, 01:59 PM   #402
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveis
It never is able to connect to us.ubuntu.org, etc.
Just use a different mirror in your sources.list definition file.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors
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Old 12th March 2008, 06:39 PM   #403
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Quote:
During the last weekend I introduced the ec-designs reclocker
to my DDDAC, hoping to find the holy grail.

OutOfTheBox I would rate it -- considering my very special environment -- "Something has to be heavily modded to get the full potential out of it".
The PCM2706 used just as a receiver is powered by noisy 5V PC-USB power. (I mean - I was pretty naively thinking the reclocker would be able manage all issues,
I attached a picture that illustrates DPLL reclocker jitter blocking. Left, the typical USB receiver timing signal, and timing jitter (approx 300+ ps). Right the reclocked signal, and timing jitter. Amplitude is lower as masterclock, reclocker and clock buffers run on 3.8V band-gap reference shunt regulators. The lower pictures show the clock signal transients in detail (max. timebase setting).

You are using the USBDI2S module that was optimized for 44.1 KHz with 48 KHz sample rate. Note that it will only reclock correctly with 44.1 KHz, as it acts like a DPLL. The locking range (delay) is exactly matched for 44.1 KHz sample rate. With 44.1 KHz, the DPLL will lock and produce a clean square wave signal, with 48 KHz sample rate, it locks-out and reverts to asynchronous reclocking.

You mentioned that you converted the digital audio files to 48 KHz, this means that when playing them back at 44.1 KHz, down sampling must be used. In either case, digital audio playback isn't bit-perfect when derived from a 44.1 KHz source.

I am using mac OSX with 44.1/16 recordings at 44.1/16 sample rate, I also use a galvanic insulated USB interface (USOS2).


Quote:
After some hours of listening I can say, you hear more details and the sound gets this jitter-free fluidness and softness - this I expected. On the other hand you also hear a lot of power and/or power-noise related flaws
Quote:
During the last weekend I introduced the ec-designs reclocker
to my DDDAC, hoping to find the holy grail.
The connected DAC and other audio equipment also heavily affect sound quality. The DDDAC DAC hasn't got an output filter, so HF images can pass unattenuated (NOS). When timing jitter is significantly reduced, "power and/or power-noise related flaws" are just showing the limitations of a NOS DAC without filter (jitter masks HF images).

The USBDI2S module (with integrated reclocker) was primarily designed for DI DACs that perform interpolation through frequency multiplication (delay-add scheme) using multiple DAC chips, and perform "calculations" in the analogue domain, preventing trunctation errors. These DACs produce a 352.8/19 output signal, and effectively attenuate / spread HF images.

I use a DI8M reference DAC (8 * TDA1541A) that was compared to commercial SACD and 192/24 systems (Philips SACD1000 and North Star 192 / Lyngdorf TDAi2200 among others) to make sure its sound quality was high enough to serve as reference. The connected audio equipment was tuned for maximum transparency.

With all respect, TDA1543-based DACs can sound very good indeed. But do realize that TDA1543 distortion is 10 times higher than the TDA1541A (Philips dataheets). Provided errors aren't correlated, it theoretically takes 100 * TDA1543 in parallel (TDA1543 distortion divided by the square root of 100) to achieve similar low distortion as a single TDA1541A. This means that you would theoretically need 800 * TDA1543 in parallel to come anywhere close to DI8M performance.

Passive IV is known to introduce distortion when TDA1543 25mV output compliance is significantly violated.

What I am trying to say is, the "power and noise related flaws" are most likely caused by unattenuated images and I/V distortion that start to get audible as timing jitter is reduced.

I do agree with you that galvanic insulation is important. USB / SPDIF coax connection creates either a galvanic or capacitive coupling between both computer and DAC. This low impedance path allows for (HF) interference and DC currents to disrupt correct USB receiver tracking.

If the reclocker works correctly, and "noise issues" are solved, bit-perfect playback from any source (PC or transport) will sound exactly identical. Spectrum analysis of the output signal could be used to verify this, provided spectrum analyzer resolution is high enough.

An easy way to construct an optical, zero coupling capacitance, USB to I2S interface is to use an USB to SPDIF (TOSLINK) converter, and connect a SPDIF to I2S converter through TOSLINK. The data integrity won't be affected, and the cascaded PLLs (one in the USB receiver, the other one in the SPDIF receiver) will further reduce USB digital audio receiver jitter. This way a USB to I2S converter can be constructed that has full galvanic insulation and zero coupling capacitance.
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File Type: jpg usbjitter2.jpg (76.0 KB, 557 views)
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Old 12th March 2008, 09:14 PM   #404
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: another linux option

Quote:
Originally posted by dwk123


I spent quite a while looking at ARM based SBC's, and while the geode based ones might be a bit more mainstream, with the advent of the Intel D201GLY2 I'm not sure the fringe offerings are worth the trouble. Running from flash, the Intel is well under 30W, which will give many hours of run time off a pico-psu and a mid-sized battery (say 33aH - I have some agm's in this size)


Well, with the Geode boards you can run everything x86; no need to seek out or compile ARM binaries. I have experience with the PC Engines boards; using one as my Monowall firewall solution. Stable as all could be and draws less than 10 watts, and thats with three internet interfaces. Plus the ALIX board could possibly put out less RFI due to it's lower (800Mhz geode) specs.

I did take a look at the Intel D201GLY2, but there is no SATA interface. Most of the big drives today are cheaper in the SATA interface. And you still have to use a standard PC power supply, or spend 40-60 dollars on one of those "Pico PSU's".

There is an older article on LinuxDevices.com that outlines running a silent MPD server from flash using a Mini-ITX board. http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6488801276.html

This article was my inspiration --and rough guide-- for using MPD now, and with the ALIX board in the futute.


Quote:
As I posted earlier in the thread, this is my setup. mpd controlled by phpMP via a Nokia 770. I think it's an amazing setup - being able to control directly from the listening seat is great.
I didn't see that post. Any drawbacks, at all, with the Nokia 770 as a remote?



Quote:
Well, you'll get lots of different views on this. In my opinion, soundcheck's posts earlier in this thread illustrate why I find USB uninteresting - basically he reports that every little possible thing he did to his machine changed the sound. IMHO this reflects a rather poor interface.
In regards to what I am about to say, I am no way bashing Soundcheck or the experiments he is performing: Right now, he is just one (correct me if I'm wrong here?) of a very few people playing with things like a Real Time kernel under Linux. He is reporting many differences in sound with each change he makes. But I would like to hear those differences for myself with my variables (i.e., my system & room setup).

I am very grateful for this thread and for the people here who are pushing the envelope when it comes to Hi-Fi audio and Linux; many neat ideas being thrown around.

Quote:
Well, if you can spring for a Wavelength maybe some of the issues with USB will go away - from what I can tell Wavelength and Empirical are the only ones offering truly high-grade USB solutions; too rich for my blood, though.
I'm still undecided. My current Adcom DAC was purchased about ten years ago. When I do purchase a USB DAC I want to keep it, and enjoy it for a very long time. I don't have the disposable income to keep upgrading components every six months. So far, I haven't found a dealer on the east coast that will let me home audition a Wavelength Audio DAC.

As a side note, if I do go with a tubed ac --which is what I would prefer-- I would like to able to see that little guy glow, since this will be my first piece of tubed gear. Alas, the Brick has it's tube neatly packaged under a sealed aluminum lid. The Cosecant, with it tube exposed but artfully protected by a piece of thick acrylic, is almost twice the price. I'll wait and see what Mr. Scott Nixon cooks up....

Sincerely

Nick
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Old 12th March 2008, 09:31 PM   #405
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: another linux option

Quote:
Originally posted by UnixMan



well, indeed Asychronous mode USB audio would be a whole different story. That's likely a right way to go!

Unfortunately, all the USB DACs and adapters I knew until now were using the "standard" Adaptive (syncrhonous) mode. And that's no good. I had not heard of any existing Asychronous mode USB DAC before... happy to know someone eventually made it! No support for Linux, though.


I was assured by "Chief Scientist at Wavelength Audio", Gordon Rankin, that the ASYNC DAC's are just as plug 'n play as any other DAC; even with Linux there are no extraneous drivers required.
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Old 12th March 2008, 10:53 PM   #406
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Alsa usb audio driver does support asynchronous mode (as well as windows drivers). However, e.g. EMU 0404 required special hacks to make it work.
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Old 13th March 2008, 09:01 AM   #407
UnixMan is offline UnixMan  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by phofman
Alsa usb audio driver does support asynchronous mode (as well as windows drivers). However, e.g. EMU 0404 required special hacks to make it work.
mmmh, that's good to know. What kind of hacks are required to get a 0404USB to work with ALSA?
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Old 13th March 2008, 10:10 AM   #408
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Take a look at the alsa-devel mailing list

http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipe...ry/006262.html
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Old 13th March 2008, 02:15 PM   #409
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: another linux option

Quote:
Originally posted by nyc_paramedic

I did take a look at the Intel D201GLY2, but there is no SATA interface.
Yes there is.
http://www.intel.com/products/mother...01gly2a_lg.jpg
There are 2 SATA connectors right next to the IDE connector.
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Old 13th March 2008, 02:46 PM   #410
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I was also thinking of setting up a multiboot Win2K/Linux drive on
my system. I have an ESI Waveterminal 192X with the drivers
for Windows. Can't find Linux drivers for it though.
Anybody know where to get Linux Driver?
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