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Old 9th January 2007, 04:37 PM   #31
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Default Re: Aqualung is great

Quote:
Originally posted by DcibeL
I got around to compiling Aqualung today from source since there are no recent Ubuntu/Debian packages that I know of. All I have to say is that it's great. The UI could use some work since lots of information is displayed on one line forcing you to make the player window very wide to be able to read it all. A note to anyone trying Aqualung, be sure to read the manual to see how RVA and the resampler work. Using the command line, you can resample anything the player will play to any frequency your soundcard supports using very high quality resampling algorithms (at the cost of high CPU useage of course).

In conclusion, Aqualung is great
How about a quick "HowTo" about building Aqualung for us Ubuntu freaks? Any traps? You could make life easier for us!


I am just setting up Jack and Alsaplayer-Jack.
The Jack audio interface for ALSA is the best and fastest around and it won't slow down ALSA, according to the Jack Homepages, The configuration options of Jack allow easy finetuning of your sounddevice. Beside that the whole setup is capable of realtime operation.
Let see how it'll sound.


Cheers
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Old 9th January 2007, 05:39 PM   #32
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Default Linux squeeze box

Apologies for posting away from the more technical side of linux audio set-up, but I came across this at the other day http://www.herger.net/slim/detail.php?nr=763

Slimcd a live cd based on damn small linux with slimserver and softsqueeze pre configured essentially giving you the functionality of a squeeze box.

Im going to have to give up on xp as the box Im setting up for audio based on a 700mhz Via cyrix iii. XP appeared to be working reasonably but has slowed down substantially to being unuseable with the addition of drivers and plugins. Cyrix's are crap for anything more than playback - giving up on the xo just now.

Moving to Linux - I suspect ubuntu may also be too bulky for the cyrix - xubuntu is another option. however, I have noticed that many low spec users have to revert to the 2.4 kernel distros, such as DSL and have to use low resource player/servers like MPD. Unfortuantely DSL requires alsa to be installed.

Many insist a correaltion between high spec processors and good sound - maybe. I chose the cyrix as it only needs a heatsink and will have relatively low EMI due to low heat output - also only cost 5. I will keep going with it just now.

Soundcheck, perhaps a how-to- on ubuntu alsa/real time patching configs would be good, but perhaps when you have plateaued at your optimum solution?

Ross
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Old 9th January 2007, 07:15 PM   #33
DcibeL is offline DcibeL  Canada
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Default Re: Re: Aqualung is great

Quote:
Originally posted by soundcheck
How about a quick "HowTo" about building Aqualung for us Ubuntu freaks? Any traps? You could make life easier for us!
Well I'm no good at writing HowTo's but I'll give an explanation for people who already know how to work their OS

The compiling page gives you pretty much everything you need to know to compile this program. I just started up Synaptic and searched for all the development packages I wanted in the list. Packages with -dev at the end is the source code required for compiling programs, so you need to enable the source repositories. I wanted to be able to edit metadata and be able to uninstall the program easily if I didn't like it, so here's what I did:

./configure --with-metaedit
./make
sudo checkinstall -D

The last line basically does the same as "make install" with the exception that it will build a .deb package and install that. The .deb will not include dependancies so it doesn't make something you can redistribute to others, but it does make it very easy to uninstall.

Good luck.
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Old 9th January 2007, 07:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: Linux squeeze box

Quote:
Originally posted by rossco_50
Apologies for posting away from the more technical side of linux audio set-up, but I came across this at the other day http://www.herger.net/slim/detail.php?nr=763

Slimcd a live cd based on damn small linux with slimserver and softsqueeze pre configured essentially giving you the functionality of a squeeze box.

Im going to have to give up on xp as the box Im setting up for audio based on a 700mhz Via cyrix iii. XP appeared to be working reasonably but has slowed down substantially to being unuseable with the addition of drivers and plugins. Cyrix's are crap for anything more than playback - giving up on the xo just now.

Moving to Linux - I suspect ubuntu may also be too bulky for the cyrix - xubuntu is another option. however, I have noticed that many low spec users have to revert to the 2.4 kernel distros, such as DSL and have to use low resource player/servers like MPD. Unfortuantely DSL requires alsa to be installed.

Many insist a correaltion between high spec processors and good sound - maybe. I chose the cyrix as it only needs a heatsink and will have relatively low EMI due to low heat output - also only cost 5. I will keep going with it just now.

Soundcheck, perhaps a how-to- on ubuntu alsa/real time patching configs would be good, but perhaps when you have plateaued at your optimum solution?

Ross
Hi Ross.

I'll take Slimdevices as a source for some ideas.

When it comes to the X environment you are right. The default environment of Ubuntu uses quite some resources and it's pretty slow from Unix perspective. Especially if you havn't done the realtime patch. I got Xfce 4.4 on my to-do-list. I tried a slim X environment earlier. These are lightening fast! Xfce is supposed to be fast and comfortable at the same time.

One after another. It's really amazing and fun how the whole thing evolves
ones you start with it!

As soon as I am ready with my setup, if that ever happens, I'll give directions!
Realtime patching is extremly easy though ( there some great and working how-to's out there).
The main-issue is to get the configuration of the kernel right. Once you have your config file right it is just a matter a time. It can take up to 2h processor time to get the kernel compiled. On my core duo, 2.16 it took one hour. I had to do it a couple of times though.


Cheers
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Old 10th January 2007, 08:56 AM   #35
ronybc is offline ronybc  India
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Smile about the push :)

I got here a card with max. of 48kHz, 16bit playback. and i'm doing...

$ mkfifo tunnel.wav
$ sox neil_diamond_hello_again.mp3 -r 96000 -s -l tunnel.wav polyphase -width 2048 | play tunnel.wav

here...
The first 'sox' converts and resamples the input 44kHz audio (.mp3 or .wav) to 96kHz, 32bit PCM. Then it is feed to the next 'sox' (play) via a pipe... this one downconverts the samples to 48kHz,16bit so that my poor sound card could DAC it.

What I'm trying to do is to keep the bit depth as high as possible and same in the processing chain. 'libmad' can emit 32bit samples... do the resampling at this high resolution (not sure... whether this will aid quality or just waste some cpu and memory)

you can see what actually happens by using verbose mode : 'sox -V' and 'play -V'

'sox polyphase' leaves almost no distortions.. the result was very clear to me. Using verbose mode (sox -V) you can get the idea, what polyphase does. Also see this SRC test results
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:46 AM   #36
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Default Real time

Soundcheck,

I am now using Puppy linux. Its only 80mb in size and the whole system loads into RAM from whatever media it is held on. It also has a 2.6.18 kernel, which actually works very well on my low spec processor, other distributions using 2.6 kernels, like slax and dynebolic did not for some reason. Puppy differs where it was built from scratch, not just an adaption of knoppix or another system.

the 2.6.18 kernel has real time built in, so no need for recompiling with patches, just enable. Still not convinced this would improve sound though, but may improve system speed on my limited processor. Alsaconf is a menu option and recognised my soundcard imediately.

In the main menu is an installer utility where you can chose to install the system from the live cd to various types of media. flash card in an ide adaptor is one, which I think I will do to have a completely silent and low powered system. The way in which the installer works ensures that read/writes to the flash card are reduced to prolong its life. Would be a fairly simple excercise to create a additonal virtual memory with the remaining flash capacity for full file buffering.

The included media player is gxine - very basic. Installing programs is very easy. People on the forum have compiled aqualung, xmms and audacious as dotpup modules which are installed more easily and quickly than any other system I have used. Seems to be very easy to build your own modules as well.

Ubuntu is still on 2.6.17, which I think has some realtime capability, but does need patched to get the full effect.

Only messed about with it for a short time, but Im very impressed with it so far.

Ross
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Old 12th January 2007, 04:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: Real time

Quote:
Originally posted by rossco_50
Soundcheck,

I am now using Puppy linux. Its only 80mb in size and the whole system loads into RAM from whatever media it is held on. It also has a 2.6.18 kernel, which actually works very well on my low spec processor, other distributions using 2.6 kernels, like slax and dynebolic did not for some reason. Puppy differs where it was built from scratch, not just an adaption of knoppix or another system.

the 2.6.18 kernel has real time built in, so no need for recompiling with patches, just enable. Still not convinced this would improve sound though, but may improve system speed on my limited processor. Alsaconf is a menu option and recognised my soundcard imediately.

In the main menu is an installer utility where you can chose to install the system from the live cd to various types of media. flash card in an ide adaptor is one, which I think I will do to have a completely silent and low powered system. The way in which the installer works ensures that read/writes to the flash card are reduced to prolong its life. Would be a fairly simple excercise to create a additonal virtual memory with the remaining flash capacity for full file buffering.

The included media player is gxine - very basic. Installing programs is very easy. People on the forum have compiled aqualung, xmms and audacious as dotpup modules which are installed more easily and quickly than any other system I have used. Seems to be very easy to build your own modules as well.

Ubuntu is still on 2.6.17, which I think has some realtime capability, but does need patched to get the full effect.

Only messed about with it for a short time, but Im very impressed with it so far.

Ross
Sounds interesting. I'll look it up.

I am running a 2.6.19.1-RT15 Kernel. You just download the kernel from kernel.org and patch it . There is already even a 2.6.20 available.

I won't step back to an older revision. Especially on newer machines this is
not recommended.


-----------------------


I did some testing recently.

Jack, Alsa and Alsaplayer vs. XMMS and Alsa all in full realtime.

Jack didn't allow me to select less than 64 frames as buffer, which led to a Latency of 2,67ms. The message I got from Jack was like "Alsa wouldn't allow less than 64frames?" Perhaps I've done something wrong here.

For the time being I stay with XMMS.
Jack and Alsaplayer, both played in Realtime, gave me more distortions than XMMS and ALSA. I have to admit though that driving XMMS at a buffer size of 10 needs really a stripped down system. There are plenty of incidents, which can cause XRUNS.
On the professional music pages they e.g. recommend to let ACPI run all the time, meaning "Fan On" at full speed all the time to avoid blocked processes. ( I just compiled my kernel accordingly. Let see how this works)

My upcoming solution to the ACPI issue: http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/...hp?language=en fully passive cooled.
Ultra-Cool Design.

I think the buffer or rather the IRQ issue is really an issue.
Looking at the "long" (I mean 3ms are still 5times better than Windows! )
gaps produced by the PC IRQs, if not configured properly.
No wonder that the sound deteriorates on DACs like mine.

I am still not there yet!

-----------------

BTW

I filed trouble reports at Audacious because of the, from my perspective, lacking features:

Realtime support
Buffer limit of 200ms

The guy in charge was answering, "he is not intending to change anything, they are not XMMS." Sounded quite rude to me!

Funny though. If you look up all the config files, they pretty much still look like XMMS to me! However.


I got plenty of things to try here.

Cheers
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Old 12th January 2007, 06:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Real time

Quote:
Originally posted by rossco_50

the 2.6.18 kernel has real time built in, so no need for recompiling with patches, just enable.
Ross.

That's not the whole story.
Without introducing the "Ingo Molnar" RT-patch you can not set your system to full realtime operation. The patch introduces an option called "Complete Preemption". The default kernel delivers three RT options by default refering very much to the desktop only!
You also have to change the timer from 250 to 1000 when running RT, which gives you a much better precision and response time. This was not configured by default in my case. Default is 250Hz.

I had a look at Puppy Linux pages. I am wondering if one will manage to do hacks
as described above without in-depth Linux knowlegdge. Still I think it's worth a try.

Cheers
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Old 12th January 2007, 07:33 PM   #39
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I have always wondered what the difference is between Ingo Molnar, andrew morton (Demudi) and the Con Kovalis (Dynebolic) low latency patches. All are mentioned with respect to audio set-up but Im unsure whether there are conflicts between them and which offers the best performance. They are perhaps even the same thing for all I know. Again, im not convinced of any correlation between these patches and audio quality - but will try later when I have everything else set up.

Im not experienced enough to say whether puppy is as 'hackable' as fully blown desktop distros like ubuntu - but it seems that I can add pretty much any program or library I would want to, and there is chat in the forums about patching for low latency (in audio terms, someone has done this) and I seem to remember a section in the documentation about recompiling and remastering. At least for a mini distro, it is very flexible. going to try Damn small linux as well, there is still some heavy cpu load with puppy on fairly simple tasks.

That does seem like a fairly agressive response by the audacious guy. they maybe get a lot or requests for old xmms features, as they are often compared and adacious is still active. They are also two (possibly) three forks away from xmms.

Get yourself aqualung, would like to hear how it compares to xmms and alsaplayer.

Ross
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Old 12th January 2007, 07:51 PM   #40
tubee is offline tubee  Netherlands
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I work one year now with Ubuntu, first 5.1, and now 6.06
Works to full satisfaction on an old 616mHz overclocked machine with 512mB ram. My daughters like the Linuxes a lot more then windoze.
Have installed Xubuntu too on an other very silent Compaq, and tried Puppy linux from cd.
But in Ubuntu i didn't get all working yet, for example i cannot play video's. Also Frostwire isn't working due older java.

Want to build an USB-I2S interface in time for dig. audio to a dac. But the 616mhz must get passive cooling then first.
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