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Old 5th March 2011, 12:55 PM   #1841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jogi View Post
...but is p.i.t.a for "average" people like me.
...also for people with a little more then average knowledge.

I'm back to W7 as main system. I'll continue to use Linux as special purpose vehicle.

Ubuntu IMO failed to introduce Linux to a mass market. They had their chance. They never really addressed the real issues though.

If sound and video support on a platform like Linux is that weak, you just can't attract a wider community.
I could continue with tons of other examples. I'll leave it. I still do have a lot of respect for the people supplying software free of charge for Linux platforms.

Let see, there is good chance that Android is going to manage what Ubuntu didn't.
Google with all the money and market power in the back might make it happen. Perhaps there'll be a spinoff for the desktop market showing up sooner or later.

Enjoy. Cheers.
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Old 5th March 2011, 02:24 PM   #1842
MrSlim is offline MrSlim  Canada
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Jogi, I use linux on a daily basis, for system admin duties, and am comfortable on the command line, but the intricacies of the sound/drivers etc still elude me. If someone knows of a good tutorial on how it all fits together, I'd love to hear about it.

Phofman, in a case like this, to manage multiple apps connecting to the USB DAC, would JACK be useful? I know it would add another layer, but its designed with professional audio in mind, so perhaps it wouldn't impact the sound as much as Pulse Audio..
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Old 5th March 2011, 02:40 PM   #1843
MrSlim is offline MrSlim  Canada
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Soundcheck: I don't think you can fault Canonical(Ubuntu) for not reaching a larger audience. To do that they would have had to spend a tremendous amount of money on marketing to compete with the behemoths like Microsoft and Apple. I also have to say, that as a whole the linux "industry" has made tremendous strides in improving the sound and video driver issues (not withstanding the wireless connectivity too). It's almost to the point that things "just work".

I just think it is important having alternatives to Microsoft, that are resistant to the virus/malware/worm issues that plague the Windows world. And its fun to be able to look "under the hood" on open source if one is so inclined, to improve on what has already been done.

You and others have made great contributions in helping the community at large use Linux for audio, and I congratulate you for that.
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Old 5th March 2011, 02:48 PM   #1844
WDYSUN is offline WDYSUN  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
...
Ubuntu IMO failed to introduce Linux to a mass market.
thanks GOD!! Usually for computers' stuff holds the equation "MASS MARKET=S**T", because if something has to work for everybody then it's a S**T

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
...
If sound and video support on a platform like Linux is that weak, you just can't attract a wider community.
I agree 100%, the difference of Linux is that it doesn't tell you what to do (like Win or Mac) you have to tell the OS what do. For somebody this is the holy grail

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
...
Let see, there is good chance that Android is going to manage what Ubuntu didn't.

I don't think (imho) that there will be any popular easy to use OS with a good (stereo) audio engine, simply nobody cares about that (except a small comunity, aka audiophiles).
I am 33 and my class this year is made of students that are on average 22, but while buy tons of music (LPs, CDs, SACDs, and flac files) none of them has ever visited a music shop. Their passion for music means going on the web and download a compilation of MP3s of hyper-compressed music that will destroy their earing... that's the f*****g damn sad truth!!!

Now why google, Linux developers or others should have interests in creating a good audio (stereo) engine? And even if they wanted, do you thing there is a market for good recordings? I don't think so. How many HD (24bit >= 48KHz) *serious* mastering/remastering do you know? Except some minor high quality label (like Chesky, Telarc, Reference Recordings, Naim, Linn etc) I don't see too much interest in HD music. And these labels have weak catalogs... In the sense that they don't have top chart artists. Will Sony ever do serious remasterings of some great Rock album from the 70s, and what about EMI or the others? Have you guys noticed that EMI remastered the Beatles discography redbook only? Now to me that means a lot, I understand the choice of not selling HD files for piracy reasons, but why not offering DVD-a or SACD versions? I think the answer is easy... the market is more interested in playing the Beatles remasters on iPods, probably converted in MP3 at low bitrate with reply gain, equalization and the like, and of course most people will listen to those songs while reading a book on the crowded metro train!

Pietro
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Old 5th March 2011, 04:14 PM   #1845
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jogi View Post
It is no problem to use just one player, but it should also play video files, which rhythmbox doesn't.
It does not have to be just one player, but one player at the given time. When you quit rhythmbox, so that it releases the sound device, you can start e.g. vlc, configured to play to the same alsa device.


Quote:
As I am no Linux expert, I would need a command line to set it up for e.g. VLC .
Why? VLC has a setup GUI, where you just put the name of your alsa device. You can check proper operation via command line (e.g. current sample rate, format, period and buffer sizes) though, but that is an additional advantage and just a matter of copy/paste to the terminal window from my posts.

Quote:
I tried figure it out it for 1hr now, and I don't get it. Linux is nice, sounds good, but is p.i.t.a for "average" people like me.
How long time will it take for an "average" user to figure out bitperfect untampered playback without any resampling to ANY sound card (especially via USB) from a selected player on windows plus a trusty confirmation that it is really the case? Just figuring out how to install and configure credible USB ASIO is no simple task at all. In linux you get this out of the box, just a matter of entering proper alsa device name into your favourite player configuration dialog.
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Old 5th March 2011, 04:23 PM   #1846
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSlim View Post
Phofman, in a case like this, to manage multiple apps connecting to the USB DAC, would JACK be useful? I know it would add another layer, but its designed with professional audio in mind, so perhaps it wouldn't impact the sound as much as Pulse Audio..
Jack as well as dmix and pulseaudio runs at a single pre-selected sample rate. Unlike dmix and pulseaudio, it is responsibility of the application to adhere to this rate and eventually resample if the input stream has different parameters. All three do not modify the stream if it happens to have the pre-set rate (and application volume is at 100% at pulseaudio), they are bit perfect in such situation. The problem is we listen to music with various sample rates and if we want to avoid resampling to one common value, we have to forgo the luxury of stream mixing, no matter which technology is used.
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Old 5th March 2011, 04:28 PM   #1847
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDYSUN View Post
I don't think (imho) that there will be any popular easy to use OS with a good (stereo) audio engine, simply nobody cares about that (except a small comunity, aka audiophiles).
How can an OS have a better audio engine than direct output to the soundcard via plug:YOURHIFICARDNAME alsa device? And using it is a matter of putting one string into your player configuration, provided all the other sounds go to your integrated sound card via some mixer (pulseaudio is configured properly by default on any modern desktop linux).

Last edited by phofman; 5th March 2011 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 6th March 2011, 11:21 AM   #1848
Jogi is offline Jogi  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phofman View Post
It does not have to be just one player, but one player at the given time. When you quit rhythmbox, so that it releases the sound device, you can start e.g. vlc, configured to play to the same alsa device.

Why? VLC has a setup GUI, where you just put the name of your alsa device. You can check proper operation via command line (e.g. current sample rate, format, period and buffer sizes) though, but that is an additional advantage and just a matter of copy/paste to the terminal window from my posts.

Thats the problem,when I quit RB and try to get sound with the Dac an VLC, it doesn't work.
I choose Alsa as output device in VLC, but no success; sound only with onboard card.
So it seems that RB doesn't release the sound device, but why? And how to change this?
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Old 6th March 2011, 01:12 PM   #1849
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Yogi,

did you check what is holding your card busy by the lsof command in Linux Audio the way to go!? ? If you did, you would have known what was the cause.

Are you sure rhythmbox really quits? There are players which just get minimized into the tray when their window is closed. Still, lsof is your friend in such situation.
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Old 6th March 2011, 03:56 PM   #1850
Jogi is offline Jogi  Germany
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Strange enough I get this with lsof:

jurgen@jurgen-laptop ~ $ sudo lsof /dev/snd/1
lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon file system /home/jurgen/.gvfs
Output information may be incomplete.
lsof: status error on /dev/snd/1: No such file or directory
lsof 4.78

Lsof package is installed...but maybe something else is missing.

And RB quits completely, as I could see in the system control.

And this:
Quote:
It means setting the alsa device name to plug:CARDNAME , where CARDNAME is the first string listed for the USB soundcard in aplay -l. E.g. the CARDNAME for usb dac listed in aplay -l on page Mandriva Forum (en) • View topic - Howto use USB sound, not mobo chip? would be Audio.
is also not clear to me; is the cardname just 0 or 1 or is it the full name, e.g. Teradac etc? And then, how to set it up? You see, I am pretty clueless, but at least able to follow step by step instructions.
So best would be a command line I just have to hack into the terminal

Thanks for your support btw, this is also what the internet and a forum is about....
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