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Old 7th January 2009, 01:16 AM   #1011
ShinOBIWAN is offline ShinOBIWAN  United Kingdom
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The brute force approach is a nice illustration but as you already admit not realistic and would actually sound bad.

What I was getting at was matching like you've shown with the brute force approach but still attaining good sound without over correction. Can Audiolense still closely match the pulses yet still have a correctly conditioned correction?

If I gave you two pulses(left and right) for a pair speakers I have can you get effective but not over corrected filters and closely match the time domain signatures?
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:33 AM   #1012
BerntR is offline BerntR  Norway
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what's the unit on the x axis?
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:35 AM   #1013
ShinOBIWAN is offline ShinOBIWAN  United Kingdom
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Time in seconds.
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Old 7th January 2009, 08:05 AM   #1014
King Nothing is offline King Nothing  United States
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wow, unless I am on crack the fireface 400 is only about $100 USD cheaper than the 800 O_O.

Might as well get that.

Secondly.

I was was wondering if we are allowed to install multiple copies of acourate? I was thinking this could be a great way for my other 2.1 setup to do some bass EQ for my sub only. I have a spare PC.
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Old 7th January 2009, 12:11 PM   #1015
King Nothing is offline King Nothing  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN
Hi Mike

I'm guessing there's no DRM nonsense since you mention PCM and HDMI 1.1 so theoretically yes but in reality no.

Problem is hardware and driver support on the PC for HDMI is still in the dark ages and you cannot output audio correctly using Console. Sound hardware manufacturers see this as a tiny niche market but since most pro sound cards never have to worry about a consumer format such as HDMI and only concern themselves with the mastering or editing then the focus is on regular analogue and digital I/O such as SPDIF, AES, ADAT etc. Little to no useful HDMI support.

All you need to do is look at the state of bluray/HDDVD playback to realise something more complicated like this is going to be a headache at best.

As always time heals all and solutions will appear sooner or later.

I assume if I use a PC based blu-ray player and analog outputs I could take advantage of the HD audio and the DRC. Unless I missed something.
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Old 7th January 2009, 12:40 PM   #1016
BerntR is offline BerntR  Norway
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN
The brute force approach is a nice illustration but as you already admit not realistic and would actually sound bad.

It would still be interesting to see how Acourate handles that approach.

It is not a given that the correction algorithms themselves doesn't become the limiting factor as far as time domain correction is conserned.
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If I gave you two pulses(left and right) for a pair speakers I have can you get effective but not over corrected filters and closely match the time domain signatures?
The thumbnail you have attached looks nice, and the approach is intriguing. Audiolense doesn't have that kind of functionality. Each correction is made with reference to the common target response only.

But while the graph looks good, I am not convinced that such an added functionality is requred to get the desired lef/right balance. Nor am I convinced that this is a free lunc. More about that later.

Attached thumbnail shows step response of uncorrected speakers. The speakers have a rather symmetric positioning. But the measurement position is asymmetric. Thus, the reflection pattern from the two speakers are very different.
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File Type: jpg step response msm_edited-1.jpg (95.1 KB, 423 views)
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:21 PM   #1017
BerntR is offline BerntR  Norway
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Next thumbnail is a step response after a group delay correction by the direct sound approach. The correction lasts for a frequency dependant window of 5 cycles, which is very moderate.

The channel symmetri is IMO quite good, allthough not as good as in ShinOBIWAN's example. But it remains to be seen which is more important: Correlation with each other or correlation with a target response.

Another thing worth mentioning: The step response after a group delay correction - or any time domain correction - will be less clean than after a minimumphase correction. The *direct* sound is affected by later reflections due to the time shifting in the filter.

So this figure isn't 100% comparable to the minimum phase (?) prefab element that ShinOBIWAN posted.
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:30 PM   #1018
ShinOBIWAN is offline ShinOBIWAN  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by BerntR
But while the graph looks good, I am not convinced that such an added functionality is requred to get the desired lef/right balance. Nor am I convinced that this is a free lunc. More about that later.
This method, is offering some of the best sound I've heard from correction. It sharpens the image and soundstage exceptionally well.

The problem with this method is that its rather hard to compute. Acourate doesn't offer any automated functionality for this type of correction but does provide all the tools to achieve it. For now only Uli can achieve good results by hand and has yet to figure out a way to make it possible to automate this. So you have to send the files to him for correction.
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:35 PM   #1019
BerntR is offline BerntR  Norway
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Audiolense is designed to provide the user with a strict time domain control. I personally regard high frequency correction in 15-20 ms to belong in the overkill department. The following thumbhail shows the stepresponse from a TDW'ed simulation.

The difference between this and the one above has been chosen to be ignored by the user.
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Old 7th January 2009, 01:41 PM   #1020
ShinOBIWAN is offline ShinOBIWAN  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by BerntR
The following thumbhail shows the stepresponse from a TDW'ed simulation.
Are you saying the data your showing is a simulation or predicted response?

The measurement I showed above was an actual capture of a stereo source at the listening position.
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